3rd Kyo-Kazulian War: Planning Thread

[Maxington]

Pre-Conflict Timeline

• September 4670: While on an official visit to Pyeongreo, the Kazulian Prime Minister Richard Fältskog expresses Kazulia's wish to see Kyoseon (Dankuk) extending the term of the Kazulian Civil Administration. Kim Il-Sung counters this by putting forward Kyoseon's will to recover all of its territories that are underneath what he considers "illegal" foreign administration.

• September 4671: For a year, negotiations are pursued with positive results; President Kim Il-Sung agrees to recognise the social democracy of Eljang and Reunii as an "untouchable" article of the transition negotiations and agrees to ratify the Joint Kyo-Kazulian Declaration.

• September 4682: Eleven years after negotiations and months ahead of the formal handover ceremony, Kyoseon calls for an immediate meeting with new Kazulian Prime Minister Michelle Cederström on the terms of the Joint Kyo-Kazulian Declaration.

• October 4682: For a month negotiations are once more pursued with no positive results. When they reach a deadlock on the structure of Eljang and Reunii's economic system after reunification (with Kyoseon calling for the complete destruction of the social democratic economy in exchange for a wholly central planned economy), the Kyoseon President bluntly states that he could recapture Eljang and Reunii overnight.

• Encouraged by her aura as the victorious leader of the newly established Three Mountains Agreement (3MA), the Kazulian Prime Minister takes up the gauntlet and orders the reinforcement of the Eljang and Reunii Garrison.

• In retaliation, Kyseon masses troops on Eljang and Reunii's border, hoping to force her to reconsider Kazulia's position. Weeks later, the Kazulian Prime Minister has not yielded an inch, citing that she intends on protecting Eljang and Reunii's fledgling democracy from the "tyranny of communism". She even convinces Lourenne and Hulstria (her Three Mountains Agreement allies) to stand alongside Kazulia.

•April 15th 4643: What it was unable to recover through diplomacy, Kyoseon decides to recover by force. On April 15th, at one minute past midnight, Kyoseon withdraw its Ambassador to Kazulia after transmitting a last declaration of war.

[Maxington]

Above is simply a timeline of where we are so far and is thus subject to change. I'd like to inform everyone from the offset that the rankings remain enforce and should be recognised in this role-play situation as it stands.

Concurrently, the rankings recognises Kazulia as a Great Power. Underneath the rankings, a great power is defined as follows:

Great Powers, which are traditionally few in number, are leading nations in the world that have a penetrating influence on global affairs. Great powers are responsible for significant blocs of power and authority, in numerous spheres such as politics, economics, social and military. Great powers have the ability to project, traditionally, throughout the world in more than just military influence. Great powers sometimes called "Global Powers" are responsible for ideological and international leadership. Great powers traditionally possess (or are very capable to possess) large armed forces and are privy to larger stocks of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons; they also have tools of projection such as aircraft carriers that permit them to influence decisions through a wide variety of diplomatic, economic and political actions.

In a similar manner, the rankings recognises Dankuk as a Middle Power. Underneath the rankings, a middle power is defined as follows:

Middle powers have the ability to focus more outwardly than small powers, they are focused still intently on their own desires and act less defensively than smaller powers but have more "wiggle room" in international affairs and opportunities. Middle powers tend to focus on neighbouring problems with an eye toward regional problems and opportunities. Middle powers tend to have more modern, moderate-sized armed forces and have a more active role in international affairs. They should not be mistaken for a regional power due to their limited power of projection to their neighbouring states but they should also not be ignored. Middle powers have the ability to band together small powers and take on a secondary role in larger alliances or friendships that provide the ability to tackle much greater problems.

I think it's important that we should first focus on the outcome of the conflict; i'm basically asking that we focus on who's going to "win" the conflict and that "win" is going to come about. I think in that we could determine whether there will be a "win" at all or simply a stalemate.

**I ask that only the players in Dankuk and Kazulia respond in this thread. It isn't really open to the opinions or whims of persons not officially involved in the conflict. And by officially i mean that both the players in Kazulia and Dankuk respectively have contacted you and asked for you to participate.

[Kim Il-Sung]

( Hey, it's us, the Kyo Worker's Party. To be clear, it should be noted that the previous president, Kim In-Sun, agreed to the terms set by Kazulia. The root of the conflict is that when he resigned, a nationalist and populist, Kim Seong-Won, became the Kyo leader, and destroyed all progress in negotiations. In between the transition there was a minor power vacuum in which the social democratic and syndicalist party in our nation, who tried to make significant progress with talks.)

There are possible scenarios we have in mind:

1) Total Kazulian Victory: Kazulia completely destroys the DPRK and establishes a Social Democratic puppet state. Alternatively, we could have a Versailles-esque treaty that simply destroys Kyoseon internally and economically (possibly leading to the 4th Kyo-Kazulkian war?).

2) Kyo recapturing of Southern Territories: Kyoseon overwhelms Kazulian forces and forces them to relinquish control of Eljang and Reunii in the aftermath

3) Great Compromise: Kyoseon annexes one province in Eljang and Reunii and Kazulia annexes the other

4) Stalemate: Kazulia and Kyoseon keep what they have, or settle on the initially planned treaty (i.e. nothing changes from the status quo ante bellum)

5) Independent South: Like Earth's Korea, Eljang and Reunii become independent and have a DMZ with Kyoseon. Colloquially, they're known as South and North Dankuk

6) Total Kyo Victory: Kyoseon reverses the situation and occupies northern territories in Kazulia

[Kim Il-Sung]

In terms of what Kyoseon has going for it, should they go on the defensive Kyoseon has an enormous militia and guerrilla system, knowledge of the land in both north and south, the ability to use weapons of mass destruction unprovoked, and in Eljang and Reunii there are plenty of Kyo nationalists that would be willing to rebel. Kazulia has the advantage in numbers and prowess. In addition, politically Kyoseon is seldom divided and usually unanimous is wanting to reunite with Eljang and Reunii.
Realistically, this would most likely end up as a stalemate or a minor Pyrrhic victory for Kyoseon. Depending on the Kyo people's willingness to fight and Kazulian military competence, it could either turn into a Korea or Vietnam. (Of course, it's important to remember that in traditional warfare Kazulia could easily repel Kyo offensives into Kazulia.)

[Maxington]

In terms of what Kyoseon has going for it, should they go on the defensive Kyoseon has an enormous militia and guerrilla system, knowledge of the land in both north and south, the ability to use weapons of mass destruction unprovoked, and in Eljang and Reunii there are plenty of Kyo nationalists that would be willing to rebel. Kazulia has the advantage in numbers and prowess. In addition, politically Kyoseon is seldom divided and usually unanimous is wanting to reunite with Eljang and Reunii.
Realistically, this would most likely end up as a stalemate or a minor Pyrrhic victory for Kyoseon. Depending on the Kyo people's willingness to fight and Kazulian military competence, it could either turn into a Korea or Vietnam. (Of course, it's important to remember that in traditional warfare Kazulia could easily repel Kyo offensives into Kazulia.)

Okay, I like the scenarios you've brought forward, but i'd like to inform you of something. Kyoseon (Dankuk) does not have weapons of mass destruction (there was never any major/official roleplay done in Kyoseon as it pertains to the development and testing of weapons of mass destruction (might they be chemical, biological and/or nuclear), so i think it would be realistic to remove that from the picture. Knowledge of the land isn't a problem for Kazulia either, especially as it pertains to operating in Eljang and Reunii (recognising that we've been here for decades) and i have conducted numerous exercises in Eljang and Reunii in the past. Kazulia does not have the advantage in numbers because that was something i recognised in the previous conflicts. Kyoseon (Dankuk) will always have the ability to muster up a greater number of troops than Kazulia. However Kazulia dramatically tilts the balance into its favour through combat effectiveness and being the more advanced of the two armies as it pertains to equipment and tactics. This isn't Kazulia's first time fighting a conflict where the numbers are stacked against them, nor is it the first time Kazulia would be involved in a counter-insurgency conflict.

[Kim Il-Sung]

All matters considered, the fate of the war is between us assuming both parties stay in power for the duration of the war. Personally, the most realistic outcome we’d most likely want to see is a somewhat phyrric victory for Kyoseon. The free city of Yonseo is established under a new blue house commission, effectively turning it into a Hong Kong-like capitalist city state. It runs all matters by itself for a 25-year long period and decides every external and internal matter independently (control of economy, foreign relations, military, etc). In addition, similarly to South Korea it conducts joint military training with Kazulia and could receive military and economic support.

The Autonomous People’s Committee for the Reunification of the Fatherland is established in the far south of Eljang and Reunii (there will be partial Kyo annexation of the northern parts).Sovereignty over the territories is returned to Kyoseon in name, but the government is forced to undergo a 15 year plan to reintegrate the economy and guarantee free immigration between Kyoseon, Kazulia, and Yonseo. Civil liberties of the Eljang and Reunii era remain in place for the 15 years, and nationalization of industries or government seizure of property must be compensated fairly under eminent domain laws.

A DMZ is set up between Kazulia and Kyoseon, with checkpoints separating the APCRF, Kyoseon, and Kazulia, to ensure immigration and travel safety. The Kyo government has to pay war reparations for 5 years (the exact amount is still to be figured out) and all captured equipment and POWs are to be returned to their respective nations.

(Also, WMDs would be removed from the scenario)

[Maxington]

All matters considered, the fate of the war is between us assuming both parties stay in power for the duration of the war. Personally, the most realistic outcome we’d most likely want to see is a somewhat phyrric victory for Kyoseon. The free city of Yonseo is established under a new blue house commission, effectively turning it into a Hong Kong-like capitalist city state. It runs all matters by itself for a 25-year long period and decides every external and internal matter independently (control of economy, foreign relations, military, etc). In addition, similarly to South Korea it conducts joint military training with Kazulia and could receive military and economic support.

The Autonomous People’s Committee for the Reunification of the Fatherland is established in the far south of Eljang and Reunii (there will be partial Kyo annexation of the northern parts).Sovereignty over the territories is returned to Kyoseon in name, but the government is forced to undergo a 15 year plan to reintegrate the economy and guarantee free immigration between Kyoseon, Kazulia, and Yonseo. Civil liberties of the Eljang and Reunii era remain in place for the 15 years, and nationalization of industries or government seizure of property must be compensated fairly under eminent domain laws.

A DMZ is set up between Kazulia and Kyoseon, with checkpoints separating the APCRF, Kyoseon, and Kazulia, to ensure immigration and travel safety. The Kyo government has to pay war reparations for 5 years (the exact amount is still to be figured out) and all captured equipment and POWs are to be returned to their respective nations.

(Also, WMDs would be removed from the scenario)

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I don't see a phyrric victory for Dankuk, especially amidst the fact that your military and economy has been in a downward spiral since the ending of the previous conflict. I don't see Kazulia being pushed out of Eljang and Reunii, nor do i see Dankuk obtaining any hold of the northern portions of Eljang and Reunii. Believe me, you will push us back somewhat as there is only 40,000 Garrison in Eljang and Reunii, but when reinforcements from mainland Kazulia arrives the tide will be turned significantly. Especially recognising that your navy and air-force hasn't recovered since the last conflict.

[Kim Il-Sung]

Please tell me what you do see then, so far you haven't gave anything besides rebuttals and it's becoming awfully clear that you don't really seem set on any outcome other than total Kazulian victory, at least from how you've been acting.

[Maxington]

Please tell me what you do see then, so far you haven't gave anything besides rebuttals and it's becoming awfully clear that you don't really seem set on any outcome other than total Kazulian victory, at least from how you've been acting.

I see a stalemate whereby the borders don't change and we sue for a DMZ on the border between Eljang and Reunii and Kyoseon. I see us being nearly pushed out of Eljang and Reunii completely however once reinforcements from Kazulia arrive the tide turns and we begin to push back to the Kyoseon/Eljang&Reunii Border. The now reinforced Kazulian forces consolidate their positions against Kyoseon's advanced before striking out across the peninsula. Heavy fighting takes place across the peninsula as Kyoseon forces refuse to give up. Kazulia dominates Kyoseon in the sea and the air (seeing that you haven't repaired or refitted your navy or air-force since the war), virtually blockading the entire peninsula. Kazulia stops at the border once more as the population becomes tired of the conflict and we move to negotiation table. That is what i see happening. Now if you want a Korea what i just mentioned is how it is going to go down, if you want a Vietnam, we will have the discuss that in a discord of some sort where we can exchange ideas at a faster pace.

[Kim Il-Sung]

(Apologies for being late, preparing for the holidays has immensely cut back on our abilities to coordinate. “Negotiations” have been delegated to me personally, so there might be a slight change in pace or tone.)

Your proposal is rather interesting, however I have fears of the issue of an independent Eljang and Reunii in game. On paper it’s sovereignty would have to be recognized, but the provinces belong to Kyoseon only in game and there is a chance that new players might ignore or be ignorant to Kazulian presence in the south. Furthermore, Kyo players could possibly refuse to negotiate with Kazulia over the provinces, and unlike the past where there was a mandate, we’re talking about an entirely “independent” Eljang and Reunii. This would mean for Kyo players that, unless another war or treaty happens, they only control half of the nation lore-wise, which I imagine could get irritating at times, In addition, I don’t see any sort of way the developers would want to create another country for the sake of this argument, especially considering that there are essentially no differences between economic systems in game, the major cause for the north-south divide in Kyoseon. (I myself was at first confused when I stumbled across the situation in Eljang and Reunii).

As such, I (and the others agree) believe that the best course of action from here would be to have this turn into a Vietnam. Unfortunately, for reasons I’d rather not disclose, I’m not available on discord at the moment, and as such this is our quickest means of communication outside of Particracy’s message system. After the 25th, I should be able to respond within 7 hours of your newest message, so please bear with me.