Feedback: Population Information

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Feedback: Population Information

Postby Auditorii » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:20 pm

Please note that this thread is for feedback on the PT Classic Population Information. The primary information thread can be found here: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=8908

PT Classic Population Information (Last updated: 04/24/2020)

Hello all!

So we've noticed a bunch of discussions on populations, tweaks to population, etc. This topic has come up before and once upon a time a group of players, Moderators and others decided to take a shot at making population numbers that make "sense" in the real of Particracy. Well, Moderation took this and did some tweaks and switches, some of it remains the same, some of it has been tweaked. We were heavily influenced by the population information that has been provided before but is generally considered to be unofficial in the eyes of Moderation for the sense of statistics and what not. The link provided above is official however and that is what we will roll will in conjunction with the PT Dynamic Rankings for Political/military and economic power. This will join that in a sort of "dynamic way". The goal right now for this will be updating it roughly every 6 months real-life time, but that could change and we'll go through the motions that we need to do to make sure its as realistic and "makes sense" in the Particracy sort of way.

We welcome feedback on this and for the next few days we do intend players to chime in and share their issues, problems, appreciation, feedback, etc. We're expecting to change somethings pending player feedback but generally we're happy with the product we've made.

Thanks all!
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Re: PT Classic Population Information

Postby Auditorii » Fri Apr 24, 2020 10:21 pm

I'd like to note separate and apart from that I am in chats with Wouter to see if can get this translated to in-game population numbers. That is an ongoing discussion but one that is certainly to be had.
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Re: PT Classic Population Information (Updated: 04/24/2020)

Postby jamescfm » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:48 pm

A welcome addition to the game in my opinion, it would be great if Wouter was able to get these confirmed through the mechanics. As this will for the first time make it the case that most countries in the game don't have the same approximate population, I just wanted to check something with regard to the economic rankings.

Up until this point, I had assumed (perhaps unfairly) that the economic rankings reflected the total size of an economy rather than a per capita measure, so for example I assumed that at the moment Kazulia, Dorvik, Istalia, Hutori and Lourenne had Terra's largest economies. When most countries had the same population, this wasn't too important but obviously different populations will impact the size of an economy. Moving forward, should we assume that countries in the same tier have similar per capita GDP or simply that they have similar total GDP?
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Re: PT Classic Population Information (Updated: 04/24/2020)

Postby Masionette9 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:50 pm

Hi, I would like the population of Valruzia to be lowered significantly to the level from the first excel sheet - 43 million. The reason for that it the fact that Valruzian nation is rather homogenous and if it's RP'ied after the Polish (with little influence of Slovak and Czech) the population of 43 mil. is much more realistic than a population of 140-ish.
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Re: PT Classic Population Information (Updated: 04/24/2020)

Postby Auditorii » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:59 pm

Masionette9 wrote:Hi, I would like the population of Valruzia to be lowered significantly to the level from the first excel sheet - 43 million. The reason for that it the fact that Valruzian nation is rather homogenous and if it's RP'ied after the Polish (with little influence of Slovak and Czech) the population of 43 mil. is much more realistic than a population of 140-ish.


Got it, we'll update to reflect this. I know you've RPd this before or made mention of it.

We'll get it updated ASAP with an official number.
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Re: PT Classic Population Information (Updated: 04/24/2020)

Postby Auditorii » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:04 pm

jamescfm wrote:A welcome addition to the game in my opinion, it would be great if Wouter was able to get these confirmed through the mechanics. As this will for the first time make it the case that most countries in the game don't have the same approximate population, I just wanted to check something with regard to the economic rankings.

Up until this point, I had assumed (perhaps unfairly) that the economic rankings reflected the total size of an economy rather than a per capita measure, so for example I assumed that at the moment Kazulia, Dorvik, Istalia, Hutori and Lourenne had Terra's largest economies. When most countries had the same population, this wasn't too important but obviously different populations will impact the size of an economy. Moving forward, should we assume that countries in the same tier have similar per capita GDP or simply that they have similar total GDP?


Given the differences in population and the wonkiness of the economics I think its fair assume that we use the concept that economies are similar in overall size. While having different populations will be great and hopefully we can get Wouter to change them, the ingame economics might be more relevant but I'm hesitant to say that they'll be heavily considered in RP.
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Re: PT Classic Population Information (Updated: 04/24/2020)

Postby jamescfm » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:25 pm

I might be misreading your response, apologies if that's the case, but I'm not sure you understood what I meant. Possible that it was poorly phrased so let me try and say it a bit clearer. My main point is that at the moment 95% of countries are ranked in the dynamic economic rankings from the same starting point, a population of ~100 million. From this point, that will no longer be the case and I just wanted to clarify what that means for the rankings.

If we take an example, say that Barmenia (pop. ~40 mil) and Beluzia (pop. ~80 mil) were in the same tier of the economic rankings. If the rankings reflect total GDP then they both have a similar size economy but the average Barmenian is going to be much better off because the same resources are being split between half as many people (distributional questions left aside). If the rankings reflect a per capita measure, then the average Barmenian and Beluzian are about as well off as one another even though the Beluzian economy is twice the size. Neither of these is necessarily a better measure but it would probably be easier from a moderation standpoint that to use the latter (since you wouldn't have to worry too much about poulation size when doing the rankings).

An unrelated question, are we free to determine the distribution of people within our country however we like?
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Re: PT Classic Population Information (Updated: 04/24/2020)

Postby colonelvesica » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:44 pm

jamescfm wrote:I might be misreading your response, apologies if that's the case, but I'm not sure you understood what I meant. Possible that it was poorly phrased so let me try and say it a bit clearer. My main point is that at the moment 95% of countries are ranked in the dynamic economic rankings from the same starting point, a population of ~100 million. From this point, that will no longer be the case and I just wanted to clarify what that means for the rankings.

If we take an example, say that Barmenia (pop. ~40 mil) and Beluzia (pop. ~80 mil) were in the same tier of the economic rankings. If the rankings reflect total GDP then they both have a similar size economy but the average Barmenian is going to be much better off because the same resources are being split between half as many people (distributional questions left aside). If the rankings reflect a per capita measure, then the average Barmenian and Beluzian are about as well off as one another even though the Beluzian economy is twice the size. Neither of these is necessarily a better measure but it would probably be easier from a moderation standpoint that to use the latter (since you wouldn't have to worry too much about poulation size when doing the rankings).

An unrelated question, are we free to determine the distribution of people within our country however we like?
I'll let Farsun answer the economic question, but I think you essentially have it on the money.

Answering your unrelated question; yes!
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Re: PT Classic Population Information (Updated: 04/24/2020)

Postby Masionette9 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 8:03 am

Actually I need advice on the future population of Valruzia - would it be better to have 124 mil or 43 mil population? Help me please 'casue "I am confusion".
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Re: PT Classic Population Information (Updated: 04/24/2020)

Postby Auditorii » Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:48 pm

jamescfm wrote:I might be misreading your response, apologies if that's the case, but I'm not sure you understood what I meant. Possible that it was poorly phrased so let me try and say it a bit clearer. My main point is that at the moment 95% of countries are ranked in the dynamic economic rankings from the same starting point, a population of ~100 million. From this point, that will no longer be the case and I just wanted to clarify what that means for the rankings.

If we take an example, say that Barmenia (pop. ~40 mil) and Beluzia (pop. ~80 mil) were in the same tier of the economic rankings. If the rankings reflect total GDP then they both have a similar size economy but the average Barmenian is going to be much better off because the same resources are being split between half as many people (distributional questions left aside). If the rankings reflect a per capita measure, then the average Barmenian and Beluzian are about as well off as one another even though the Beluzian economy is twice the size. Neither of these is necessarily a better measure but it would probably be easier from a moderation standpoint that to use the latter (since you wouldn't have to worry too much about poulation size when doing the rankings).

An unrelated question, are we free to determine the distribution of people within our country however we like?


I think for the sake of fairness and simplicity, when it comes to differences in population and economic rankings, we will simply go in the tiers of economic rankings. Meaning, if you're considered "Very Strong" and your nation has a population of 10 million whereas another has a population of 40 million, it will be considered the same. It's a little janky and perhaps not the most realistic but I think in the concept of fairness, it works.
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