Quality RP or plagiarism?

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Re: Quality RP or plagiarism?

Postby Yolo04 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:09 pm

jamescfm wrote:Nobody is demanding anything, we're simply asking that those players who have plagiarised own up to their actions and face the consequences.


“Nobody is demanding anything”, you say, as you make a demand.

As far as I know, nobody had even accused you of plagiarising until you openly admitted to having done so by suggesting that we all do it.


Yeah, I have plagiarized. Last time I did was probably two years ago in TerraNations, when I stopped caring about RP.


Nothing that I have ever written has been plagiarism.


That’s a fucking lie and I know it is, because you’ve gone through the western education system. You’ve plagiarized shit…anyone who grew up within the western education system has.

In ordinary life such conduct is not only dishonest, it can constitute a crime in the form of copyright infringement.


When I get thrown in jail for plagiarizing a paper in high school, I’ll let you know.


Quite simply it seems to defeat the point of playing the game. As I already said, I think it is nonsense for you to throw a tantrum at Aquinas for suggesting that you face consequences for what is a fundamentally deceitful and unfair practice.


I should be de-ranked for plagiarizing shit over 2 years ago? James, I will say something very important that I think you should pay attention to:

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Re: Quality RP or plagiarism?

Postby jamescfm » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:34 pm

Just to be absolutely clear once again, since you seem to be struggling with this information: not everybody plagiarises. I have no idea what happens in the American education system so I can only speak for my own country but in England, plagiarism is not acceptable (especially in the education system). Despite your random, baseless assertions, I have never plagiarised. I don't understand why you cannot accept- despite it just having been implemented into the rules- that it is unacceptable to steal somebody else's work and pass it off as your own. Nothing about this concept is remotely difficult or controversial.
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Re: Quality RP or plagiarism?

Postby Rogue » Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:52 pm

I honestly cant believe what im reading right now.... How hard can it be to man up and take your damn responsibility. About the plagarism, i have not plagarized anything EVER as well. In fact. Here in The Netherlands you hand in your assignments through a online system that actually compares your document with that of other students to check for plagarism. And the teacher in question checks out certain key words for plagarism from the internet as well.

Plagarism is simply just wrong. The fact that some here even try to argue against that is unbelievable. Im truly thankfull that Luis took his responsibility and i really respect that. That is how you handle something when you have been wrong. Again i dont get why you are acting like this Yolo. Our interactions till now have been good. And as James and Aquinas have said before this is literally NOTHING against you as a person. But take your responsibility if you know you have done something thats wrong. If you havent been doing any plagarism, i honestly would be more suprised as to why you are acting the way you are rn.
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Re: Quality RP or plagiarism?

Postby Yolo04 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:07 pm

jamescfm wrote:Just to be absolutely clear once again, since you seem to be struggling with this information: not everybody plagiarises. I have no idea what happens in the American education system so I can only speak for my own country but in England, plagiarism is not acceptable (especially in the education system). Despite your random, baseless assertions, I have never plagiarised. I don't understand why you cannot accept- despite it just having been implemented into the rules- that it is unacceptable to steal somebody else's work and pass it off as your own. Nothing about this concept is remotely difficult or controversial.


That’s a hell of a leap you’ve made into assuming I don’t think plagiarism is bad. But I’m even more impressed in how you’ve completely changed the subject on a dime. My entire point has been that, just because I’ve plagiarized in the past, does not mean Keymon should be down-ranked for that. Plagiarism is bad, but to claim that it’s something that should effect me two years later is foolish.

Mr.God wrote:I honestly cant believe what im reading right now.... How hard can it be to man up and take your damn responsibility. About the plagarism, i have not plagarized anything EVER as well. In fact. Here in The Netherlands you hand in your assignments through a online system that actually compares your document with that of other students to check for plagarism. And the teacher in question checks out certain key words for plagarism from the internet as well.

Plagarism is simply just wrong. The fact that some here even try to argue against that is unbelievable. Im truly thankfull that Luis took his responsibility and i really respect that. That is how you handle something when you have been wrong. Again i dont get why you are acting like this Yolo. Our interactions till now have been good. And as James and Aquinas have said before this is literally NOTHING against you as a person. But take your responsibility if you know you have done something thats wrong. If you havent been doing any plagarism, i honestly would be more suprised as to why you are acting the way you are rn.


And you, like James, automatically assumed my argument was plagiarism isn’t bad. My argument was that plagiarism is wide spread and, therefore, shouldn’t be considered in rankings, when said plagiarism has occurred almost 2 years ago. Obviously, if said plagiarism has been occurring for the many months leading up to a ranking, that should be taken into account. But to jump onto plagiarism that occurred over 2 years ago and demand the person who did so be punished is foolish, and I think anyone who believes that is foolish. Whether you like it or not, I really could’ve give less of a fuck. :D
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Re: Quality RP or plagiarism?

Postby Rogue » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:12 pm

Okay then. Are you even reading what we are typing? We have said. Multiple times. We dont know if you have plagarized and dont accuse you of it. But you keep bringing yourself into the conversation. My last sentence literally was "If you havent been doing any plagarism, i honestly would be more suprised as to why you are acting the way you are rn."

so if you havent plagarized recently. Then why bring it up constantly instead of joining the constructive talks we are currently having on actually dealing with the problem of plagarism.
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Re: Quality RP or plagiarism?

Postby Yolo04 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:19 pm

Mr.God wrote:Okay then. Are you even reading what we are typing? We have said. Multiple times. We dont know if you have plagarized and dont accuse you of it. But you keep bringing yourself into the conversation. My last sentence literally was "If you havent been doing any plagarism, i honestly would be more suprised as to why you are acting the way you are rn."

so if you havent plagarized recently. Then why bring it up constantly instead of joining the constructive talks we are currently having on actually dealing with the problem of plagarism.


Please read Aquinas’s demands and James’s agreement with them to see why I’m still discussing this. Thank you:
Same principle applies. You either RP with integrity, or you don't, and if somebody does not, I really do not need to waste my time reading their posts and I really would rather not see their nations enjoying premier positions in the rankings which kind of force me to acknowledge them.


James agreed with that statement.

This is why I am still discussing this.
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Re: Quality RP or plagiarism?

Postby Rogue » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:23 pm

Yolo04 wrote:
Mr.God wrote:Okay then. Are you even reading what we are typing? We have said. Multiple times. We dont know if you have plagarized and dont accuse you of it. But you keep bringing yourself into the conversation. My last sentence literally was "If you havent been doing any plagarism, i honestly would be more suprised as to why you are acting the way you are rn."

so if you havent plagarized recently. Then why bring it up constantly instead of joining the constructive talks we are currently having on actually dealing with the problem of plagarism.


Please read Aquinas’s demands and James’s agreement with them to see why I’m still discussing this. Thank you:
Same principle applies. You either RP with integrity, or you don't, and if somebody does not, I really do not need to waste my time reading their posts and I really would rather not see their nations enjoying premier positions in the rankings which kind of force me to acknowledge them.


James agreed with that statement.



This is why I am still discussing this.


All that only applies IF you have plagarised your post. If the only time you plagarized was in TerraNations. As you say it is. Then you dont have anything to be defensive or hostile about right? Thats literally what im trying to say.
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Re: Quality RP or plagiarism?

Postby Yolo04 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:35 pm

Mr.God wrote:
Yolo04 wrote:
Mr.God wrote:Okay then. Are you even reading what we are typing? We have said. Multiple times. We dont know if you have plagarized and dont accuse you of it. But you keep bringing yourself into the conversation. My last sentence literally was "If you havent been doing any plagarism, i honestly would be more suprised as to why you are acting the way you are rn."

so if you havent plagarized recently. Then why bring it up constantly instead of joining the constructive talks we are currently having on actually dealing with the problem of plagarism.


Please read Aquinas’s demands and James’s agreement with them to see why I’m still discussing this. Thank you:
Same principle applies. You either RP with integrity, or you don't, and if somebody does not, I really do not need to waste my time reading their posts and I really would rather not see their nations enjoying premier positions in the rankings which kind of force me to acknowledge them.


James agreed with that statement.



This is why I am still discussing this.


All that only applies IF you have plagarised your post. If the only time you plagarized was in TerraNations. As you say it is. Then you dont have anything to be defensive or hostile about right? Thats literally what im trying to say.


Here is Aquinas’s full post in regards to my statements surrounding Keymon:

Aquinas wrote:
Auditorii wrote:By my own admission yes, so did every previous Moderator to date iirc.


This is most definitely NOT the case. Plagiarism was much rarer in the past than it appears to be now, but that does not mean it was allowed. There were rules against it, and there were cases where they had to be enforced. One particular example I recall involved the Libreal Party in Dranland (as it then was) some years ago...you may recall that case yourself, since you were a Moderator at the time. There are a few other instances which come to mind as well, including the one Reddy mentioned, where a player actually plagiarised another player's post.

By the way, I have found section 5 (on RL variables) from the old set of rules, and even they included this:

5.1.1. Real-life quotations may be used, but the real-life speaker or author should always be referenced in an OOC (out-of-character) note alongside the quotation.


Auditorii wrote:I didnt defend using plagiarized material at all. I simply didn't want to come across an issue where someone used a component of a real life text, applied it to Particracy and was called plagiarism for it. For instance if someone posts a quote of a text, a piece of informational text from an article to describe something, etc


This is confusing. We really do need to know the difference between the plagiarism you're okay with and the plagiarism you're not okay with.

Auditorii wrote:not sure the most realistic thing to do is sudden rip countries from rankings without any context.


Nations are incrementally raised and lowered in the rankings several times a year, usually. What is the big deal about that?

I recall an incident not long ago where Likatonia did a naval exercise, and Moderation decreed it would have to be a failed naval exercise because the player had over-reached himself RP wise. What has happened with these countries is exactly the same. The players have over-reached themselves, and the reality of that needs to be implemented in to RP in some form.

Yolo wrote:Until you provide evidence that I, as the main player in Keymon, had plagiarized any posts in the past year (6 months), please stop trying to drag Keymon or I into this controversy. Also, please do not spit on my work just because you think I plagiarized, which I didn’t. I would prefer my work to make Keymon a strong power be respected, as I have shown respect to you.


You have already openly admitted plagiarising posts and have made it clear you are unrepentant about it. If anything, you sound indignant that the issue has been raised at all.

With respect, I have no interest in wasting my time going through your posts trying to research which (if any) recent posts have been plagiarised. So far as I am concerned, I divide players between those who I trust to RP with integrity, and those I do not. You, regrettably, fall in to the latter category. This is a real shame, because you can do some really good RP (the Keymon Civil War being a good example), but so far as your posts directed at the economic and military rankings are concerned, to be honest I'm not even inclined to bother to read them any more, and I do not think it is reasonable to expect anybody else to do so either.

This is not personal. I happen to like you as a person, as it happens. This is simply an issue about RP, and I would treat any other player the same who behaved like you have done.

Yolo wrote:It also of importance to note that you demonstrated that the Valruzia player had plagiarized a single post. So…why does a player’s nation deserve to be down ranked for a single post?


Same principle applies. You either RP with integrity, or you don't, and if somebody does not, I really do not need to waste my time reading their posts and I really would rather not see their nations enjoying premier positions in the rankings which kind of force me to acknowledge them.

Yolo wrote: I would prefer to believe that you are not using this to merely weaken the ranking of nations that surround you, but your constant attacks on my RP, despite not showing any evidence of plagiarism from me, is making it harder and harder not to believe my hypothesis.


This suggestion is ridiculous and is not worthy of you.



As you can tell Mr. God, it is clear that James and Aquinas both see me as “an untrustworthy RPer” which should therefore indicate that Keymon (like the other nation’s players they classify as “untrustworthy”) should be down-ranked. Even earlier, Aquinas stated that Keymon and Valruzia should be down-ranked, even though he has repeatedly failed to present evidence as to why Keymon should be down-ranked, besides the statements listed above. His belief and (following his explicit approval of this idea) James’s belief is that Keymon, regardless as to recent RP done, should be downranked merely for plagiarism that occurred 2 years ago. I disagree, as I don’t see plagiarism as an offense that be held in such a high stakes.

James or Aquinas, if you wish to renounce your previous approval of down-ranking Keymon for actions that occurred two years ago, you are more than open to do so. However, until then, I maintain my position that
1) Plagiarism isn’t an offense that should be considered so seriously as James and Aquinas are heralding it to be
2) Plagiarism in the distant past (year +) does not and should never instantly down rank a nation in the present day
3) A single plagiarized post is not justification for a down-ranking, which is what Aquinas and James both believe should occur to Valruzia
4) That plagiarism in other games does not mean that a nation in Particracy should be down-ranked automatically

These are my positions, if you do not like them, tell me so and we can discuss them. Otherwise, I’m done.
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Re: Quality RP or plagiarism?

Postby Rogue » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:40 pm

1) Plagiarism isn’t an offense that should be considered so seriously as James and Aquinas are heralding it to be


Okay so you still think plagarism isnt that big of a deal. Jesus. How hard can it be to realize/admit that something is WRONG. Seriously. I cant understand how you can possibly defend plagarism.

On the other points. You dont seem to get the context of the discussion and the fact no one is putting blame on you at all. You are literally digging your own holes. Idk what to say honestly. Again none of us have ANYTHING against you personally. And are simply having this discussion for the betterment of the game.
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Re: Quality RP or plagiarism?

Postby jamescfm » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:42 pm

I think we should assume at this point that Yolo's nonsense is an attempt to distract from the matter at hand. I have never said that any player is "untrustworthy" and I have not said that any country should be "down-ranked automatically". If you're accusing me of treating plagiarism as a serious problem then I plead guilty as charged. Plagiarism is dishonest theft and I find it abhorrent. If you want to continue this petty bickering then please do so in another thread.

Let us return to the focus of this thread. In addition to the posts that Aquinas linked to in his original post, this is further evidence of plagiarism in Lourenne's news thread:

viewtopic.php?p=157293#p157293
https://oncubanews.com/en/cuba/france-t ... r-in-cuba/

viewtopic.php?p=157344#p157344
https://ca.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSKBN1ZM2G6

viewtopic.php?p=154822#p154822
https://www.ft.com/content/13d30034-f64 ... 9acae3b654

viewtopic.php?p=154997#p154997
https://cineuropa.org/en/newsdetail/387749/

I understand that some might not feel this is a useful exercise but I think it is important that we understand the scale and scope of the problem. Would it actually be worth keeping a central record of all the known examples of plagiarism, either in the original post of this thread or in a separate one? I feel this might help us to get a proper understanding of the problem.

Not sure about other players but there are a couple of things I would like at this point. Firstly I think it would be best that all of the players involved in plagiarism (including those who have not yet been "caught out") should immediately disclose all posts of their own that they know to be plagiarised. At the same time, they should offer an account of their actions and take responsibility in the way that Luis has already done (to his credit in my opinion).

In terms of Moderation, I appreciate that you may view the rankings as a separate issue but the two are related. Personally I do not think that this would have been happening on this scale if the rankings were not set up in the manner that they currently are. Obviously I have already sought to address this through the consultation that I opened. In the short term, might I recommend that Moderation delay the next update to the rankings until the full scale of this problem has been understood?
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