Proposal: Making news more accessible

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Proposal: Making news more accessible

Postby GreekIdiot » Wed Dec 27, 2023 2:04 pm

As I'm tackling the update for the prtcy.com and the bot, I've caught myself believing that news threads like informal news, world congress, ABUs, tweeters, etc. are "sidelined" as secondary mediums to national news, when in fact they're equal in terms of RP.

My proposal is:

- Change National News to News
- Include other news threads alongside national news threads in News

Here's how it will look like (excuse the crappy mockup):

Image

PS: The "Adnetwork" is something I'm whipping up where players will be able to "bid" for random postings of ads between news.
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Re: Proposal: Making news more accessible

Postby jamescfm » Wed Dec 27, 2023 7:13 pm

I am strongly opposed to this. The national news threads are more important than any other topic threads on the forum and they deserve their own separate space. With no disrespect to "Informal News" or "A Battle Unseen", these are not a central part of the game and most players will not regularly use them. I would not be opposed to rearranging the forum to put them in a section together but they absolutely do not belong in the main news section, in my opinion.
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Re: Proposal: Making news more accessible

Postby Zanz » Wed Dec 27, 2023 7:31 pm

I initially voted yes because I do want to limit the number of subforums if possible but, after reading James' comments I actually think I'm convinced that these probably are one rare case where a subforum might still make sense. There is value in being able to drop into National News and finding a consistent set of newspapers. I think the problem is probably with the Culture and Sport section and not with the News section, myself - it's bloated and over-categorized.
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Re: Proposal: Making news more accessible

Postby GreekIdiot » Wed Dec 27, 2023 7:48 pm

Think i'm getting it. So...

News (as is)
- Other news (subforum for every secondary news thread from anywhere else)

?
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Re: Proposal: Making news more accessible

Postby GreekIdiot » Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:47 pm

Scraping this in favour of the feedback by james and Zanz. Lemme see if I can cookup a few suggestions to "declutter" appropriately without changing the structure. Any input by anyone in the meantime is ofc more than welcome!
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Re: Proposal: Making news more accessible

Postby Wu Han » Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:30 pm

I think I am more on the side of the opposition to these (rescinded) proposals, though I understand and appreciate the intent.

I have long felt—as the creator of "Informal News," for whatever that's worth—that it is wrongly categorized as "literature," as this topic should, in my view, only include literature written in-character (political manifestos, essays, "academic articles," in-character fictional writing, poetry, etc.). This said, I am not sure where it would be best placed, as I agree with James that Informal and Unseen are less important than the national news threads, which to my mind are the core/essential threads to the game itself, but they are also not written in-character in the way that other posts under "literature" are and should be...

I think that the "other news" proposal might be best, but I'm not sure if it would actually function positively toward decluttering the forum, as it might be too broad... perhaps "secondary news sources" to be more delimited? I'm not sure... I don't have a clear proposal to this end, but wanted to point out some of the issues which (I am sure) have been considered by those engaged in this issue already...
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Re: Proposal: Making news more accessible

Postby GreekIdiot » Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:43 pm

Off the top of my head real quick. Any thoughts?

    News (has national news)
      Channels (has tweets, ABU, informal, adnetwork, etc)
    Events (has general events and conflicts merged here as the section is generally inactive)
      Conferences & Visits
    Organisations (has general orgs)
      Governments (has global orgs)
        Artania
        Majatra
        Seleya
        Keris
        Makon
        Dovani
      Parties
      Academia
      Business
      Religion
    World Congress (honestly i'd debate merging some of its subforums and/or moving under organisations)
      General Assembly
      Security Council
      Campaigns
      Archive (Sessions)
      Archive (Resolutions)
    Culture (has arts, sports, literature, etc under one roof)
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Re: Proposal: Making news more accessible

Postby Wu Han » Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:23 pm

GreekIdiot wrote:Off the top of my head real quick. Any thoughts?


Respectfully, I'm not sure about this proposal...

(1) What is meant by "parties," as I could see this under events? If "political parties," I think this should be specific for clarity.
(2) I generally think conflicts should remain separate from general events, though it should be under "events." This is simply because conflicts are a very specific form of an RP event compared to others, in my opinion; though these sections may be less active, I still think this separation is best organizationally and in trying to find "historical" posts.
(3) I think either "Literature" and "Academia" should be merged, or "Literature and Arts" should be merged under culture; in any case, "Literature" should be separate from other more general cultural writing, because as in my articulation above, "Literature" should be for a specific form of RP writing.
(4) Perhaps "Sports" under events? Or "Organizations" if in reference to a specific league? Not sure...
(5) I am not sure about "Channels" for reasons I cannot clearly articulate, so I may return... in short, I think my main gripe is about the word, I think "Other News" or "Secondary News Sources" would be better.

Despite all this, I am not super adamant about any specific (re-)organization. I suppose I feel strongest about keeping "Literature" posts, in some form, in a more specific sub-topic, as it's a specific form of RP writing; the style of writing of the posts contained in various sections should, in my view, be considered in how they are categorized.

As an aside: perhaps an "international media" or a "media and literature" section could be the catch-all for non-national news? International publications could have their subtopics under such a category. Though I suppose this would leave out Informal and Unseen under a strict adherence to the naming, I think it would still work...

I don't know...

What about "Society?"

Society
↳ Religion
↳ Arts and Literature
↳ Academia
↳ Business
↳ Sports

and keep "Organizations" for more purely political types of organizations?

Organizations
↳ NGOs and Political Parties
↳ Multilateral
↳ Regional
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Re: Proposal: Making news more accessible

Postby GreekIdiot » Wed Jan 03, 2024 11:51 pm

Wu Han wrote:
GreekIdiot wrote:Off the top of my head real quick. Any thoughts?


Respectfully, I'm not sure about this proposal...

(1) What is meant by "parties," as I could see this under events? If "political parties," I think this should be specific for clarity.
(2) I generally think conflicts should remain separate from general events, though it should be under "events." This is simply because conflicts are a very specific form of an RP event compared to others, in my opinion; though these sections may be less active, I still think this separation is best organizationally and in trying to find "historical" posts.
(3) I think either "Literature" and "Academia" should be merged, or "Literature and Arts" should be merged under culture; in any case, "Literature" should be separate from other more general cultural writing, because as in my articulation above, "Literature" should be for a specific form of RP writing.
(4) Perhaps "Sports" under events? Or "Organizations" if in reference to a specific league? Not sure...
(5) I am not sure about "Channels" for reasons I cannot clearly articulate, so I may return... in short, I think my main gripe is about the word, I think "Other News" or "Secondary News Sources" would be better.

Despite all this, I am not super adamant about any specific (re-)organization. I suppose I feel strongest about keeping "Literature" posts, in some form, in a more specific sub-topic, as it's a specific form of RP writing; the style of writing of the posts contained in various sections should, in my view, be considered in how they are categorized.

As an aside: perhaps an "international media" or a "media and literature" section could be the catch-all for non-national news? International publications could have their subtopics under such a category. Though I suppose this would leave out Informal and Unseen under a strict adherence to the naming, I think it would still work...

I don't know...

What about "Society?"

Society
↳ Religion
↳ Arts and Literature
↳ Academia
↳ Business
↳ Sports

and keep "Organizations" for more purely political types of organizations?

Organizations
↳ NGOs and Political Parties
↳ Multilateral
↳ Regional


Honestly, these are all great points. Best if we zoom in back again then?

The issue here is that any non national news are "lost" in the forums.

But at the same time non national news are "secondary".

Though still a medium of RP for players, that's why you see me avoiding the word "secondary" on purpose.

So...

    National News
    International News

Which confuses the fact that national news can be international.

Or...

    News (with nothing here)
      National News
      Other News

Which creates an unnecessary "second" click.

Or...

    News (national news here)
      Other News

And move all "newsfeed" related threads into Other News, with some pinned and basically any player able to create any feed they like.
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Re: Proposal: Making news more accessible

Postby jamescfm » Sun Jan 07, 2024 12:50 am

The problem with the in-character section of the forum right now is that it is in the middle of two incomplete reorganisations. I made a start on reorganising things about two years ago but never completed the job (e.g. there are many conflict topics not in the "Conflicts" sub-forum). GreekIdiot then did the same a few months ago. Realistically this kind of thing is never "finished" but I agree we should try and restore some order. Here are my recommendations, based on my personal opinion and my experience failing to reorganise it previously.

No archive sub-forums

I disagree with the use of archive sub-forums for four reasons: they are unnecessary, they make navigation harder, they create additional administrative work, and they discourage resurrecting old topics.

Archive sub-forums are unnecessary because inactive topics are effectively archived when they drop down the list of topics within a subforum. On top of that, they make navigation harder because they create two places to search for an old topic: the main sub-forum and the archive sub-forum. If I wanted to search for the "International Arms Catalogue" or "Razamid Peace Prize", there is no way to know which sub-forum to search. In reality, the deciding factor is whether a forum administrator has moved them. This links to the third reason. I do not think archiving topics is a good use of the limited time of forum administrators.

The final reason is perhaps less significant. Personally I always enjoy it when an old concept or idea is resurrected, sometimes years after the original player has left the game. By archiving topics and locking the archive sub-forum, it is no longer possible for new players to continue where previous players finished. For example, the "Solidarity for Democracy in Dovani" organisation might yet be resurrected by players but they would not be able to post in the existing thread because it is in the archive sub-forum. For the same reason, I am opposed to locking threads in almost all circumstances.

The only exception to this recommendation is the "World Congress" section because it is a distinct space with a different fundamental structure to the rest of the forum.

National news threads should be separate

I have already made this point earlier in this discussion and I do not want to belabour it. I believe the individual national news threads are the single most important part of the forum. As a result, I think they should remain as they currently are, i.e. a wholly distinct sub-forum called "National News". In line with my first point, I would remove the archive sub-forum and I would not create any new sub-forums.

Organise by theme not structure

In my opinion, the main problem with the reorganisation proposed above is that it focuses on the structure of a topic rather than the theme. In particular, separating "events" and "organisations" leads to unnecessary confusion. For example, a synod is an event and a church is an organisation. On the face of it, it is more natural to have both in a sub-forum called "Religion" than have them in separate sub-forums called "Events" and "Organisations" (or something similar).

Create a media sub-forum

To address the specific question of where to locate "A Battle Unseen" and "Informal News", I would suggest a sub-forum called "Media" inside "World Events". Although this is not a perfect solution, it is the best option in my view because it creates a place for these two (and similar) topics without undermining the separation of the "National News" threads.

Simplify intergovernmental organisations

The section for intergovernmental organisations has been modified ad hoc and should be simplified. I do not understand why we need distinct sub-forums for each continent. Every topic currently in "Artanian Union" and "Majatra" could be moved to "Regional". The individual sub-forums have less than seven topics. Even after the proposed change, the "Regional" sub-forum would have fewer than twenty topics within it. At present, the existence of these sub-forums renders the "Regional" sub-forum redundant.

Miscellaneous suggestions

I would remove the "Academia" sub-forum. Most of the topics were previously in "Literature" and could be returned there. The other topics would fit comfortably in "Culture and Sport", which specifically states that it contains academic events and organisations. I do not believe there is enough role-play centred on academic to necessitate a specific sub-forum.

A few sub-forums could have their names modified. "Diplomacy" would be a shorter way to say "Conferences and Visits". "Businesses" and "Political Organizations" could be renamed "Business" and "Politics" respectively. "Culture and Sport" could be renamed "Culture and Society".

In the in-character section of the forum, no topic should be set to "announcement". I make this comment specifically in relation to the "Monarchies: Lines of Succession" thread. As far as I can tell, this is not an announcement and it is not in-character. I think it should be moved to the "General" sub-forum.

I would not change anything in the "World Congress" sub-forum. I rearranged this recently and believe the structure works well.

Conclusion

Based on these suggestions, here is the overall structure I propose.

National News
World Events
↳ Conflicts
↳ Diplomacy
↳ Media
Intergovernmental Organizations
↳ Global
↳ Regional
Politics and Economics
↳ Business
↳ Politics
Culture and Society
↳ Arts
↳ Literature
↳ Religion
↳ Sport
World Congress
↳ General Assembly
↳ Security Council
↳ Campaigns
↳ Sessions Archive
↳ Resolutions Archive
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