Mikhail Gorbachev: West needs Perestroika

[Khaler]

Oh c'mon George, I'm actually kind and intellectual guy when I'm not messing around with some foreigners behind a nickname.

[Molotov]

Gorbachev is spot on, he's a very clever man. Also honest. Possibly the only honest Russian in existence, and he and Churchill were the only honest world leaders since Gladstone.

Churchill was a racist prick, he can fuck right off... well I guess he was honest about that at least.

So because Churchill held certain views you find distasteful, it is proper to dismiss his ability and his achievements? Don't be silly and childish. Ceasar kept slaves, you know, and Garibaldi routinely had people executed for disagreeing with him. Can they 'fuck right off' too?

[Chazza]

Gorbachev is spot on, he's a very clever man. Also honest. Possibly the only honest Russian in existence, and he and Churchill were the only honest world leaders since Gladstone.

Churchill was a racist prick, he can fuck right off... well I guess he was honest about that at least.

So because Churchill held certain views you find distasteful, it is proper to dismiss his ability and his achievements? Don't be silly and childish. Ceasar kept slaves, you know, and Garibaldi routinely had people executed for disagreeing with him. Can they 'fuck right off' too?

I'll dismiss Churchill as any sort of hero or someone to admire for those views, of course I will. No matter how much people might like to reminisces about the good 'ol days 'ol Winston single-handedly saved us all from fascism I'm not going to go around cheering his racist, imperialist 'achievements'.

[Molotov]

You're an idiot, then

Patton liberated half of Germany, and he hated Jews with a passion. Does that mean we should wipe his name from the history books? Aside from that, stop applying your modern day values to historical figures. My old elocution teacher, for example, was told as a child to throw rocks at the local Jew who walked through the village (he dressed and looked like Shylock, apparently, with the beard to his knees and the robes and whatnot. This was probably nearly ninety years ago now). I don't dislike my elocution teacher because of the attitudes he was taught and held for much of his life, in fact, he is one of the people I respect the most and will do so for the rest of my life - he received both an OBE and an award from the Pope, and was a bloody good man, better than I. Most everyone was racist growing up before the war, although not racist like the BNP or the National Front, rather there was a societal, scientific, cultural and religious acceptance of quantifiable differences between the various human 'races', and British children in British schools were taught that were were the finest people on Earth (which, to be fair, there was a lot of evidence in favour). It's ridiculous and childish to dismiss Churchill because of views that he and millions of others held, and it wasn't even as if they were particularly 'bad' racist views. Churchill never treated people differently because of their race, even if he did snap about the Indians and the Koreans. He certainly believed in the British Empire, and there was no shame in that, and despised its enemies. He was also rather eccentric, a drunk, a wastrel, the worst First Lord of the Admiralty in history, an incredibly brave man who escaped capture and travelled from Africa through war-torn Europe to fight again. He was also the man that led the greatest fight for our freedom we have ever had to face, inspired millions and was probably, and deservedly, Britain's best Prime Minister.

You, Charlie, are a coddled middle-class student who (I suspect) has yet to achieve anything. Not to suggest that this in any way deprives you of your right to an opinion, but whatever Churchill's views, he is a hundred times the man you or I.

[Opakidabar]

but whatever Churchill's views, he is a hundred times the man you or I.

Ehh, whatever Churchill's views, there is no need for personality cult.

[Molotov]

I'm not Russian, I don't go in for that sort of thing.

[Captain-Socialist]

I'm not Russian, I don't go in for that sort of thing.

Then what is the point in the constitutional monarchy?

[Molotov]

It's the opposite to a cult of personality, really, it's a cult of institution. Who reigns doesn't really matter, just so long as the Head of State is dignified and above politics.

Although the monarchy doesn't have to have a point, does it? Saying 'what's the point of the monarchy?' is like asking 'what's the point of the nation?' - it just exists, really, it's the way we do things.

[Chazza]

Churchill never treated people differently because of their race, even if he did snap about the Indians and the Koreans. He certainly believed in the British Empire, and there was no shame in that, and despised its enemies. He was also rather eccentric, a drunk, a wastrel, the worst First Lord of the Admiralty in history, an incredibly brave man who escaped capture and travelled from Africa through war-torn Europe to fight again. He was also the man that led the greatest fight for our freedom we have ever had to face, inspired millions and was probably, and deservedly, Britain's best Prime Minister.

Of course he treated people differently, he perpetuated an entire economic and political system that treats people differently because of who they are, I really don't give a fuck how much you want to go on cheering these past imperialists I'm not going to excuse people for what they did. I'm looking forward to a very circular argument here.

Oh and he didn't lead the 'fight for freedom', the millions of people that died and will never have their names remembered lead that fight but they didn't come up with funny quips nor did they ever hold a position of power so they probably arent worth mentioning...

You, Charlie, are a coddled middle-class student who (I suspect) has yet to achieve anything. Not to suggest that this in any way deprives you of your right to an opinion, but whatever Churchill's views, he is a hundred times the man you or I.

Why thank you.