bfmvivi vs. A Socialist in Obama the Socialist?

[Darvian]

The only people I hear referring to "Universal Healthcare" as "Socialised Medicine" are Americans who try to seem to be trying to use the "Socialist" bogeyman to derail the process.

You need to talk to some more educated Americans then. I'm opposed to any sort of national health care plan, and you can call it whatever you'd like. As I tell my biological brother, I love him to death but that doesn't mean I'm willing to pay for his health insurance. In the US children who are under the poverty line (and well above it) are eligible for a multitude of health-care programs that entitles them to essentially free health-care as it is. There is the S-Chip program then the new one, what is it the Blue Chip thing-government sanctioned irony whereupon the more we smoke cigs the more kids get better health coverage.

Indeed, there is a cliche for most Americans to resent the word and usually hold a view of socialism as a very contemptible thing, rightly or wrongly. The notion of universal health-care or national health-care or socialized-medicine is news-speak and nothing else, folks. If you (non Americans) were to be a bit smarter about your approaches on this topic you'd point out the big pink elephant in the room in respect to socialism in America. We have a socialized army, gasp. Those who do support national health-care plans are making a horrible argument and have for a very long time within the context of American politics and culture.

Americans have no problem pooling together their money to socialize and nationalize a standing army to combat an enemy. So, what those who do support a national health-care plan ought do is start thinking in this context. We have socialized education as well, to a degree-the enemy here is ignorance. If you want national health care, why don't you call the enemy illness and disease? If you want Americans to consider a broader form of welfare, call the enemy poverty. There, I've given the pro-big-government factions some ammo against people like myself.

[Mr.Yankees]

Guys, President Obama's healthcare plan is not, at all, socialist. This is a common misunderstanding. This is a simple explanation of what it is:

1) Basically, the government will just be another health insurance company. They will provide coverage like any other insurance. Obviously, the coverage it will provide will be more extensive.

2) Citizens will have a chance to pick what insurance they want. They can go with private insurance or the government-provided option. They can also keep their current one.

3) Now, how the government provided health insurance is paid for get a little bit trickier. I can't go into much detail because it is still being worked on, so, no even I know the exact last draft of it. It's going to be something like this:

a) Several measures will be adopted in order to save hundreds of billions of dollars from Medicaid and Medicare to some extent.

b) New regulations and/or deals made with the private insurers will save the government several hundred billions of dollars in subsidies.

c) New strategies will be implemented to save in administrative costs.

d) High earners will be a subtax imposed of around 1%-Depends on how much you earn.

e) Health benefits provided by employers will be taxed (this is just being considered now).


The new government plan is supposed to pay for itself by reducing current costs (little side note: the subtax is actually not needed but it will go towards reducing the deficit our dear President has so often promised to reduce ) if it works how it is planned. Of course, not everything goes according to plan, so we'll see what happens.

To get to my point here: the new health care initiative is not socialism.

Note to my fellow Americans who happen to be Conservatives: I am not taking any side on this issue, I am simply stating the facts.

[Darvian]

Note to my fellow Americans who happen to be Conservatives: I am not taking any side on this issue, I am simply stating the facts.

Given I am not one of your fellow American big C conservatives, I'd point out for everyone reading that Dr. Calhoun above is being incredibly deceitful with the word fact.

[PresMusharraf]

The only people I hear referring to "Universal Healthcare" as "Socialised Medicine" are Americans who try to seem to be trying to use the "Socialist" bogeyman to derail the process.

Truth is, wherever nationalised health has been introduced it has saved lives. Also, you would be hard pressed to find a single pro-market party in any on those countries that would actually ever dare to try to dismantle it.

We have had in in Australia since about 1976 and while it could be better, it is far better than just letting people die.

see, now this is where the big deception is with market health care. We don't say "Oh, you don't have health insurance. Sorry, I'm afraid we can't treat you." It's just the fact that after the life-saving surgery or whatever is done, then we get a bill that pratically kills us anyway if we don't have insurance.

However, Mr. Yankees, you have forgotten the part where there would be a penalty if you chose not to get insurance, and there is also a proposal (as I am sure you are well aware of since you work with the Democrats) that would tax health care benefits in order to raise money for this government-run health care company. Also, what about the massive cut in Medicaid? This thing needs some serious ironing out before it gets fed to the American people.