If Hitler were alive today...

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Re: If Hitler were alive today...

Postby Molotov » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:27 am

Opakidabar wrote:
Molotov wrote:It is interesting how many ancient and modern religions have an element of the trinity or a triune deity of some kind. Hinduism has the Trimurti, the ancient Zoroastrians had the evil god, the good god, and chaos - who were all the same being. It crops up quite often through history, as does the use of three or multiples of three (Odin's nine days, nine spells, the three roots of the World Tree that covered nine worlds). Although this may be because the Norse thought in multiples of three, I have no idea, I've never looked into it.

Latvian mythology and tales features concept of "Trejdeviņi" ("threenine", in a way - over threenine seas and threenine hills, meaning "faraway land") which was once explained by one of our folk scientist in a manner that put me in shock.
"trejdevini" = 9*9*9 = 729, which is ~ 365 days and 365 nights. So over threenine lands means a distance that can be done in a year.
So either coincidence or my ancestors did some maths :)


I see why you were shocked, that's really interesting. Thanks for telling me. Who are the old gods of Latvia?

Was it the ancient Lithuanians who had a European empire which stretched to the Mediterranean? Were the ancient Latvians anything to do with that, or affected by it? It might explain how they would know and care about the distance one might travel in a year. I might be confused with something someone once told me regarding Lithuania and the Holy Roman Empire, which would be mediaeval, in which case I'm totally off the mark.
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Re: If Hitler were alive today...

Postby Amazeroth » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:45 am

Molotov wrote:
Was it the ancient Lithuanians who had a European empire which stretched to the Mediterranean? Were the ancient Latvians anything to do with that, or affected by it? It might explain how they would know and care about the distance one might travel in a year. I might be confused with something someone once told me regarding Lithuania and the Holy Roman Empire, which would be mediaeval, in which case I'm totally off the mark.


You might refer to the Lithuanian Kingdom (which later became Poland-Lithuania). I don't know it went all the way down to the Mediterranean, but it was really great and powerful. As far as I know, both the Holy Roman Empire (with their Teutonic Knights) and the Lithuanian Kingdom pretty much crushed the Latvians with crusades.
Eines Tages traf Karl der Große eine alte Frau.
"Guten Tag, alte Frau", sagte Karl der Große.
"Guten Tag, Karl der Große", sagte die alte Frau.
Solche und ähnliche Geschichten erzählt man sich über die Leutseligkeit Karls des Großen.
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Re: If Hitler were alive today...

Postby Opakidabar » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:19 am

Amazeroth wrote:
Molotov wrote:
Was it the ancient Lithuanians who had a European empire which stretched to the Mediterranean? Were the ancient Latvians anything to do with that, or affected by it? It might explain how they would know and care about the distance one might travel in a year. I might be confused with something someone once told me regarding Lithuania and the Holy Roman Empire, which would be mediaeval, in which case I'm totally off the mark.


You might refer to the Lithuanian Kingdom (which later became Poland-Lithuania). I don't know it went all the way down to the Mediterranean, but it was really great and powerful. As far as I know, both the Holy Roman Empire (with their Teutonic Knights) and the Lithuanian Kingdom pretty much crushed the Latvians with crusades.

In big lines everything is correct.
There were no Latvians in crusade times. We were like 4-5 tribes fighting each other. Then crusaders came, little "divide and conquer" and there we are - our ancient kings became vassals of bishop and Germanized. Livonia was made.
Crusaders managed to kill of Prussia as well. Our spiritual capital.
Lithuanians united under this threat, their leader baptized (later became pagan again :) ) and managed to create large political power to beat crusaders out of its lands.

Grand Duchy of Lithuania - never called kingdom and never a vassal to king (before union with Poland). Their kings managed to unite large portions of land and to create the largest state in Medieval times. Gediminas was the guy who managed this (Brittish Queen is his prime descendant ;) , well to be honest Brittish Queen is prime descendant of a huge number of royal European families). However their aristocracy and leaders came from small Lithuanian tribes that were heavily outnumbered by their subjects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lithu ... turies.png
When Lithuania united with Poles and Lithuanian king married Polish queen. Lithuania became Poland (Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth), since there were a lot more Poles than Lithuanians in the union (4.5M Poles, 0.7M Lithuanians, 0.7M Jews, 2M Ruthenians).
There are a lot of stories how first Commonwealth kings (Lithuanians in ancestry) caused trouble to their aristocrat Polish/German wives by behaving as savages and loving forest and their own ancient religion :D But gradually they became more and more Polish.
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Re: If Hitler were alive today...

Postby Opakidabar » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:47 am

Molotov wrote:I see why you were shocked, that's really interesting. Thanks for telling me. Who are the old gods of Latvia?

Ancient Indo-European farmer gods. Since Latvians had no written texts on gods preserved till these days, a lot of stuff is reconstructed.
We shared the language and gods with other Balts - Lithuanians and Prussians. Main God was Dievs/Dievas (Prussians called him Okupirmas - the first one). Then there was a bunch of other Deities. Perkons (Thunder) being the most important.
A lot of similarities with Sanskrit is kept in Lithuanian language (Latvian is very similar but more Germanized).
God gave teeth, God will give bread.
Lithuanian: Dievas davė dantis, Dievas duos duonos.
Sanskrit: Deivah adadhat dątas; Deivah dat dhānas.
Latin: Deus dedit dentes, Deus dabit panem.
We also had Bramans as one of major "castes". At least our folk songs carry their name and their brave, proud attitude through centuries.
Part of the folk songs about Bramans (again number nine):
"Sajāja bramaņi
Augstajā kalnā,
Sakāra zobenus
Svētajā kokā.

Svētajam kokam
Deviņi zari,
Ik zara galā
Deviņi ziedi,
Ik zieda galā
Deviņas ogas."
Bramans came together on horse to the high hill, put their swords on the sacred tree. Sacred tree had nine branches, at the end of every branch there were nine flowers, at the end of each flower there were nine berries.
Part of the song is mixed in Enigma's Beyond the Invisible, starting 0:52. Very beautiful sample.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=revQR0-0 ... re=related

And to put the thread back to where it belongs - Swastika was one of major symbols for ancient Balts.
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Re: If Hitler were alive today...

Postby Amazeroth » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:56 pm

Ah yes, forgot that it was a grand-duchy. As far as I know, Poland-Lithuania did not go to the Mediterranean, but to the Black Sea, due to their King Vytautas. Also, though the Lithuanians were its rulers, the common language was ancient East-Belarussian.

Lithuanian is by the way the most archaic of all living Indo-European languages, and has proven very valuable for linguists to reconstruct Indo-European words (therefore the more obvious similiarities to Sanskrit).
Eines Tages traf Karl der Große eine alte Frau.
"Guten Tag, alte Frau", sagte Karl der Große.
"Guten Tag, Karl der Große", sagte die alte Frau.
Solche und ähnliche Geschichten erzählt man sich über die Leutseligkeit Karls des Großen.
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Re: If Hitler were alive today...

Postby JuliaAJA » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:27 am

AngryMollusc wrote:
Amazeroth wrote:
AngryMollusc wrote:Well said. Valhalla >>> Heaven.


But arabic heaven (lots and lots of girls) >>> Valhalla (drinking in order to prepare for your last fight)

After some consideration, I'm willing to cede this point.

On an unrelated note, I've decided to convert to Islam.


Valhalla was only one heaven, there was also another where the other half of soldiers went to where females who died noble deaths went.

Convert to Schultzism, we combine Germanic/Norse Heavens, Semitic Heaven, Native American Heavens, and Eastern Heavens.

Captain-Socialist wrote:A suicide bomber goes to market, and he is extremely excited about meeting his virgins. He detonates, killing 10 Arabs and 4 Americans. He is then taken up to heaven to get his reward, but when he gets there he is surrounded by ghastly, deformed women. He is extremely angry and gathers round his fellow martyrs in a meeting.

"Why has Allah lied to us?" he cries "we where promised virgins. Did we not die for the jihad? We must go to Allah and demand he keep his promise!"

So the martyrs form a mob and surge up onto Allah's cloud, Allah is shocked and asks them "Why are you here, and why so angry? Are you not satisfied with my gifts?"

"Gifts!?" splutter the martyrs, red with rage "Those hags are ghastly, we where promised a eternity of paradise with virgins! We demand you keep your promise!"

"But I have" replied Allah "it's your fault for not asking why they are still virgins."


Good one.
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