Does Satan Exist?

[Aethers]

There is no God and the Magic 8-Ball is his prophet. *nods sagely*

Now now, you are beginning to sound just like Dynastia.

For the benefit of those (me) who weren't paying attention when Dynastia was actively posting, what does that mean exactly?

[HeadAroundU]

He does. He is god, here, in Slovakia. And he has just won Stanley Cup!

[AngryMollusc]

Poor Richard Dawkins. Bet he feels silly now. Photographic evidence and all... ouch.

[PresMusharraf]

No, of course he couldn't. How can we love God, if we have no choice? It would be like a man raping his daughter if God forced us to love him.

So instead He smashes us to bits, to show how much He loves us, yes?

Look, I'm not arguing with Christianity in general because I appreciate that it's (with a little... pressure) consistent with current scientific consensus, if a little improbable. It's just that PresM's rationale for God randomly splattering people is a bit... odd.

Yes. Randomly splattering people who also (randomly, of course) stated their outright hatred for the God of Jacob and Isaac? Who knew what is moral and right (even by atheistic standards) and rejected it anyway? Nowadays, we call these people dictators, tyrants, and terrorists, and we wage war against them in the name of all that is good in this world. How, then, can we justify our acts of war against evils if we criticize God for doing the same?

Btw, you will also notice in the Bible that generally, every nation that is to be punished by God is given a chance to recant.

This is an interesting view, but I don't think that the devil would have any kind of power other than to work on human minds. I think that most catastrophies happen out of human evil (like wars) or because of humans not behaving 100% rational (like living in a place that could be struck by hurricanes) and thus giving themselves to the forces of nature (even if the chance that a catastrophe happened was small). Then you'd also have to take in mind that what we think is important and right can sometimes be wrong - and that dying is not the worst thing that can happen to you. I do believe that every human that is a victim to any catastrophe or whatever kills him dies not without having the chance to go to heaven, not that God's grace is not great enough to let the decision between heaven and hell be made by chance.

I had meant to address this the first time you posted it, but I got carried away with other stuff. That's a big Doh! on my part. Yes, I agree that it is the human who does the action and the devil can only tempt (not control). However, the devil can also make things very easy for those who are tempted to do his will and can corrupt the hearts of terrible people by spewing lies into their heads. Then, the human becomes hardened and basically becomes Satan's physical tool.

[AngryMollusc]

No, of course he couldn't. How can we love God, if we have no choice? It would be like a man raping his daughter if God forced us to love him.

So instead He smashes us to bits, to show how much He loves us, yes?

Look, I'm not arguing with Christianity in general because I appreciate that it's (with a little... pressure) consistent with current scientific consensus, if a little improbable. It's just that PresM's rationale for God randomly splattering people is a bit... odd.

Yes. Randomly splattering people who also (randomly, of course) stated their outright hatred for the God of Jacob and Isaac? Who knew what is moral and right (even by atheistic standards) and rejected it anyway? Nowadays, we call these people dictators, tyrants, and terrorists, and we wage war against them in the name of all that is good in this world. How, then, can we justify our acts of war against evils if we criticize God for doing the same?

Btw, you will also notice in the Bible that generally, every nation that is to be punished by God is given a chance to recant.

Still, I don't quite get this. God has the power to just convince them stop being immoral, yes? Why not just do that? I mean, if he's going to impose his will on them anyway, he might as well do it in the manner that doesn't break his own rules. Personally, I'd far rather convince every dictator, tyrant, and terrorist to stop than go through the bloody messes we do now to try and stop them.

[Molotov]

Er, AM, what I said earlier applies. One must repent of one's own free will, God can't force you to. Otherwise, there would be no point in God having given us free will, or in God having made us in the first place.

I think PresM has some odd ideas, too. I don't understand his rationale for the Devil either.

Poor Richard Dawkins. Bet he feels silly now. Photographic evidence and all... ouch.

Heh. We should put that picture on buses. "Dawkins on the weekend."

[Amazeroth]

Yes. Randomly splattering people who also (randomly, of course) stated their outright hatred for the God of Jacob and Isaac? Who knew what is moral and right (even by atheistic standards) and rejected it anyway? Nowadays, we call these people dictators, tyrants, and terrorists, and we wage war against them in the name of all that is good in this world. How, then, can we justify our acts of war against evils if we criticize God for doing the same?

Btw, you will also notice in the Bible that generally, every nation that is to be punished by God is given a chance to recant.

Still, I don't quite get this. God has the power to just convince them stop being immoral, yes? Why not just do that? I mean, if he's going to impose his will on them anyway, he might as well do it in the manner that doesn't break his own rules. Personally, I'd far rather convince every dictator, tyrant, and terrorist to stop than go through the bloody messes we do now to try and stop them.

Basically what Molotov said. God doesn't force people to do good, he leaves them the choice. The problem is that you think by killing them he is "imposing his will anyway", which he isn't. He may be doing it for damage control or for setting examples of how not to behave, but not because he forces those people to behave morally correct - after all, you can't force anybody to do anything by killing him.

[Molotov]

Why do you believe in God? (If you don't, why would someone believe in God?)

I still don't understand what you meant in your original post though, George?

[PresMusharraf]

I think PresM has some odd ideas, too. I don't understand his rationale for the Devil either.

I'd like to know which part is unclear (or "odd") because in my opinion there are many clear statements that indicate the presence of a great evil in the form of the Prince of this World aka Satan.

[Imperialistic]

Do Satanists think God is the root of pure evil?