British Politics and Scottish Independence

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Re: British Politics and Scottish Independence

Postby TheTsar » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:45 am

Even though I am pretty fond of Corbyn and I absolutely hate Blair and "New Labour", I can almost see Labour splitting into two separate parties if Corbyn insists on more left-wing policies, a la the Russian Social Democratic and Labour Party spliting into Bolsheviks and Mensheviks. The last GOOD left-wing Labour leader and PM was Clement Atlee, because he could hold Britain together in a time of crisis. He is actually been named best or second best British PM in literally all ratings of all PMs. Even though I wish Labour wins, they simply cannot. They need to slowly turn more left-wing over a number of decades and not quickly in a number of years.
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Re: British Politics and Scottish Independence

Postby jamescfm » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:54 pm

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Last edited by jamescfm on Sat Sep 23, 2023 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: British Politics and Scottish Independence

Postby TheTsar » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:01 pm

jamescfm wrote:
TheTsar wrote:Even though I am pretty fond of Corbyn and I absolutely hate Blair and "New Labour", I can almost see Labour splitting into two separate parties if Corbyn insists on more left-wing policies, a la the Russian Social Democratic and Labour Party spliting into Bolsheviks and Mensheviks. The last GOOD left-wing Labour leader and PM was Clement Atlee, because he could hold Britain together in a time of crisis. He is actually been named best or second best British PM in literally all ratings of all PMs. Even though I wish Labour wins, they simply cannot. They need to slowly turn more left-wing over a number of decades and not quickly in a number of years.


Though I disagree with you on Blair and New Labour, they achieved a lot while in government, I'm reassured to see that I'm not the only one who simultaneously agrees with Corbyn and believes he can't win. One of the problems with Labour's left-wing is that they lack personal charisma and popularity: McDonnell and Abbot in particular have always appeared snide and somewhat arrogant to me. However, many on the left feel that they have no choice but to support them because they have no other choice. In my view, that's the wrong attitude. If you have such public figures who are unpopular and incompetent, you are harming the wider movement.

As a final note, I think a certain Harold Wilson would be rather disappointed by your comment of Attlee as the last good left-wing PM. Abolition of capital punishment, decriminalisation of homosexuality, liberalisation on abortion and extension of the franchise were just some of his achievements.


Did Harold Wilson rule during a time of crisis? No. Did he bring Britain from its knees? No. Did he overhaul British everything for decades to come? Not really. Yes he abolished capital punishment, but there was already effectively a moratorium on it, and frankly, a little execution for mass murderers and terrorists could prove useful. Regarding the decriminalisation of homosexuality, yes its a big step towards larger civil rights, but does it affect wider society as a whole. Homosexuals are a small minority, and to be truthful, homosexuals are still discriminated against, so before the decriminalisation, it was easier to not be discriminated if you were homosexual because you just keep it to yourself, or you will be a criminal. He was an OK PM, but not good in my opinion.
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Re: British Politics and Scottish Independence

Postby MichaelReilly » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:22 pm

MarkWill wrote:That generation went by quickly.


It's all those bloody Scots who had the audacity to vote SNP and Green's fault.
Down with this sort of thing
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Re: British Politics and Scottish Independence

Postby Aquinas » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:38 pm

TheTsar wrote:Did Harold Wilson rule during a time of crisis? No.


I would agree with you in not wanting to put Wilson in the same league as Attlee, but to be fair, Wilson did have more than his fair share of crises to deal with. Balance of payments and devaluation crises. Strikes and trade union problems (most famously over "In place of Strife"). Trying and failing to take Britain into the EEC (the body that later became the EU). A Labour Party tearing itself apart over all sorts of issues, from trade union reforms, to nuclear disarmament, to EEC membership. Cabinet heavyweights jostling to displace him. The Cold War at its peak (including Vietnam). The Oil Crisis. Rhodesia/Ian Smith/Unilateral Declaration of Independence. A hung Parliament in 1974. Struggling with tiny Labour majorities in Parliament. All sorts of chaos going on with Northern Ireland (including abolishing Stormont and introducing direct rule, the failed Sunningdale agreement and The Troubles). Suspicions about rogue elements in the security services spying on him and seeking to undermine his government. There are more I've probably forgotten to mention.
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Re: British Politics and Scottish Independence

Postby jamescfm » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:10 pm

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