Canadian Federal Election 2015

[Darkylightytwo]

Democracy isn't just about political freedom. Right-wing parties are inherently anti-democratic, and it is in democratic interest to ban them.

Stop tying elections to Democracy. You're a Capitalist. Capitalists don't know much about Democracy. Stick to your private property rights, and all that other nonsense.

Your election system isn't that democratic to begin with, anyway. A party can easily win a national majority of seats with a minority portion of popular support. In the last election, the Conservatives managed to get a majority of seats with less than 40% of the votes. Your elections are a game of numbers, not popular support, so don't talk about Democracy. Together, the NDP and the Liberals had more votes than the Conservatives.

Capitalism is much more Democratic than a Communist and Socialist system where the state controls everything and doesn't allow room for the people to invest in their own economy. It is rather laughable that you're tying Communism and Socialism to Democracy.

Democracy cannot be there only for those who have the money, democracy is supposed to there for everyone,
and no state is communism, since communism exist by the abolition of the state, it is a post-state ideal which no one have reached and as far as I knew, only right-wing communism is in power in many states. not left-wing.

A small number?' The Duffy Scandal, tell you nothing ? and the robocall scandal, you really think Harper did not knew, no, he is obsessive on control of
information, he knew about all that, he is the leader of the party and hold it with an iron fist.

Sure Harper (fixed our economy.) Destroyed our state and our public function , give us a 180 billion deficit and more for some lower taxes, scrap environmental protection for rivers and lake, waste billion in oil, meanwhile, house debts are at all times high and Canadians debts are also at an all time high, but you think Harper is good because he passe some measures that lower the taxes for the most fortunate Canadians and does nothing to fight fiscal evasions.

I sure don't share your values

You're making everything sound bigger than how big it actually is. As far as I know he didn't destroy any part of the public sector and I find it very confusing when Engage Canada is running anti-conservative ads in Ontario saying they cut healthcare when the federal government has no control over healthcare or education, but then again it's funded by American labour unions so... [/quote]

ShitHarperdid.com
Engage Canada is not only Union, and it Canada Unions, not americans unions, and they are spending public dollars to publicize the budget, like the conservative are doing.

more info : http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/04/24 ... 4660.html.. get rid of only half the Haxes Harper has cutted, and we have a very solid budget, and we are actually reducing the debt.
He took power in 2006 : with a surplus of 13 billion. and see what he has done with it, only to have lower taxes...
http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/canada-deficit/

yeah, we also have plenty of money sleeping in treasury of business, and we have plenty of debt in the hands of Canadians. a great economics record...

Sorry, but Harper must go, he cannot stay.

[SelucianCrusader]

Harper seems to take inspiration from the darkest of places.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbZjGGWk528

[Siggon Kristov]

Democracy isn't just about political freedom. Right-wing parties are inherently anti-democratic, and it is in democratic interest to ban them.

Stop tying elections to Democracy. You're a Capitalist. Capitalists don't know much about Democracy. Stick to your private property rights, and all that other nonsense.

Your election system isn't that democratic to begin with, anyway. A party can easily win a national majority of seats with a minority portion of popular support. In the last election, the Conservatives managed to get a majority of seats with less than 40% of the votes. Your elections are a game of numbers, not popular support, so don't talk about Democracy. Together, the NDP and the Liberals had more votes than the Conservatives.

Capitalism is much more Democratic than a Communist and Socialist system where the state controls everything and doesn't allow room for the people to invest in their own economy. It is rather laughable that you're tying Communism and Socialism to Democracy.

1) Don't confuse Communism with Socialism. Communism is a post-state idea, while Socialism is a statist approach to achieving Communism. There are non-statist/non-Socialist ideas for achieving Communism as well. Central planning, or the idea that the state should control everything, is Socialist - not necessarily Communist.

2) Statism isn't inherently anti-democratic. Statism and Democracy are not mutually-exclusive. Democracy is a collectivist idea. Don't confuse Democracy with Liberalism. People like to throw around Democracy as a word that means "whatever I like" or "whatever sounds nice" but that is not what Democracy is. Feel free to criticise Democracy, but don't pretend that it is something else. Democracy has absolutely nothing to do with an individual's right to private property, or an individual's ability to "invest in their own economy" as you put it. What you may know as "Democracy" is possibly Liberal Democracy, i.e. Liberalism with elections and sometimes a little welfare.

I notice you focused entirely on me calling you a Capitalist, and totally ignored my remarks about your election system.

[MichaelReilly]

Remember, 'freedom' doesn't just mean complete liberty from any sort of government intervention (i.e. 'negative freedom'). There's also positive freedom, meaning the liberty to have things, such as healthcare and education. So the government might not tax you very high, but are you free if you are riddled with debt; if you can't pay your healthcare bills? Ok, so the government might not be jailing you for expressing a dissenting opinion, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're free. The irony is that Americans claim to be the most free nation on earth, and yet they're all in debt to insurance and mortgage companies while desperately trying to scrape together a few bucks to pay off their collage loans. FREEDOM!!!

EDIT: This might not be strictly on topic, but the conversation seemed to drift this way a few times so I thought I'd weigh in with my two pence. Or cents. Whatever.

[CanadianEh]

Remember, 'freedom' doesn't just mean complete liberty from any sort of government intervention (i.e. 'negative freedom'). There's also positive freedom, meaning the liberty to have things, such as healthcare and education. So the government might not tax you very high, but are you free if you are riddled with debt; if you can't pay your healthcare bills? Ok, so the government might not be jailing you for expressing a dissenting opinion, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're free. The irony is that Americans claim to be the most free nation on earth, and yet they're all in debt to insurance and mortgage companies while desperately trying to scrape together a few bucks to pay off their collage loans. FREEDOM!!!

EDIT: This might not be strictly on topic, but the conversation seemed to drift this way a few times so I thought I'd weigh in with my two pence. Or cents. Whatever.

If you don't pay much taxes and things are private you can use that money you have saved in taxes to pay for those nessesities rather than having the governmemt overpower you take your money and manage it for you. With a Capitalist system people are taking care of themselves. If people manage their money correctly they should be able to pay for the things they need. Healthcare and Education should both be covered though for obvious reasons.

[Siggon Kristov]

Remember, 'freedom' doesn't just mean complete liberty from any sort of government intervention (i.e. 'negative freedom'). There's also positive freedom, meaning the liberty to have things, such as healthcare and education. So the government might not tax you very high, but are you free if you are riddled with debt; if you can't pay your healthcare bills? Ok, so the government might not be jailing you for expressing a dissenting opinion, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're free. The irony is that Americans claim to be the most free nation on earth, and yet they're all in debt to insurance and mortgage companies while desperately trying to scrape together a few bucks to pay off their collage loans. FREEDOM!!!

EDIT: This might not be strictly on topic, but the conversation seemed to drift this way a few times so I thought I'd weigh in with my two pence. Or cents. Whatever.

If you don't pay much taxes and things are private you can use that money you have saved in taxes to pay for those nessesities rather than having the governmemt overpower you take your money and manage it for you. With a Capitalist system people are taking care of themselves. If people manage their money correctly they should be able to pay for the things they need. Healthcare and Education should both be covered though for obvious reasons.

I've heard this and all I can say is that it has been proven to be bullshit.

The government subsidises tertiary education in Jamaica, and it was able to do this even before we got into crazy debt. What really ran us into debt was energy prices. Anyways, the government subsidises tertiary education, so Jamaican students (and students from other specific Caribbean countries) pay a specific rate; students can see all the different rates. I've seen the rate that students would have to pay if they aren't from specific Caribbean countries. I can assure you that I personally don't know anyone, who is attending my university, who could afford those prices. I'm in Jamaica's upper-middle class; I'm quite bourgeois, and even my family could never afford that. Yeah, we couldn't afford a foreign university either.

I asked multiple people, and all their answers were the same. "If you and your parents did not pay any form of taxes, like GCT or income tax, or anything, would you be able to afford the non-subsidised price of tertiary tuition?" - the answers were all "No."

[CanadianEh]

I've heard this and all I can say is that it has been proven to be bullshit.

The government subsidises tertiary education in Jamaica, and it was able to do this even before we got into crazy debt. What really ran us into debt was energy prices. Anyways, the government subsidises tertiary education, so Jamaican students (and students from other specific Caribbean countries) pay a specific rate; students can see all the different rates. I've seen the rate that students would have to pay if they aren't from specific Caribbean countries. I can assure you that I personally don't know anyone, who is attending my university, who could afford those prices. I'm in Jamaica's upper-middle class; I'm quite bourgeois, and even my family could never afford that. Yeah, we couldn't afford a foreign university either.

I asked multiple people, and all their answers were the same. "If you and your parents did not pay any form of taxes, like GCT or income tax, or anything, would you be able to afford the non-subsidised price of tertiary tuition?" - the answers were all "No."

Well, I don't know where you get your proof but essentaily the only difference between a Socialist System and a Capitalist System is that the government is acting as your accountant, though your accountant may decide to pocket some money added to the fact that they have to give a certain amount of your money to another accountant. As for your University point, Canada doesn't really cover University costs (Though in some Provinces it is subsidized for Low-Income Students) and the amount of Canadians with College and University degrees is quite high. Though our GDP Per Capita is much higher than Jamacia's so your Upper-Middle Class and my Upper-Middle Class is probably very different even though we are in the same category. To be honest I'm not so sure what Tuition is here but it can be upwards to $4,000 yearly but most families put in place University saving funds with family accountants.

To your last point if everyone answered "No" then where is Jamacia getting the Tax Dollars to pay for Education? There has to be a large amount of people that answered yes to the survey.

[Siggon Kristov]

I've heard this and all I can say is that it has been proven to be bullshit.

The government subsidises tertiary education in Jamaica, and it was able to do this even before we got into crazy debt. What really ran us into debt was energy prices. Anyways, the government subsidises tertiary education, so Jamaican students (and students from other specific Caribbean countries) pay a specific rate; students can see all the different rates. I've seen the rate that students would have to pay if they aren't from specific Caribbean countries. I can assure you that I personally don't know anyone, who is attending my university, who could afford those prices. I'm in Jamaica's upper-middle class; I'm quite bourgeois, and even my family could never afford that. Yeah, we couldn't afford a foreign university either.

I asked multiple people, and all their answers were the same. "If you and your parents did not pay any form of taxes, like GCT or income tax, or anything, would you be able to afford the non-subsidised price of tertiary tuition?" - the answers were all "No."

Well, I don't know where you get your proof but essentaily the only difference between a Socialist System and a Capitalist System is that the government is acting as your accountant, though your accountant may decide to pocket some money added to the fact that they have to give a certain amount of your money to another accountant. As for your University point, Canada doesn't really cover University costs (Though in some Provinces it is subsidized for Low-Income Students) and the amount of Canadians with College and University degrees is quite high. Though our GDP Per Capita is much higher than Jamacia's so your Upper-Middle Class and my Upper-Middle Class is probably very different even though we are in the same category. To be honest I'm not so sure what Tuition is here but it can be upwards to $4,000 yearly but most families put in place University saving funds with family accountants.

To your last point if everyone answered "No" then where is Jamacia getting the Tax Dollars to pay for Education? There has to be a large amount of people that answered yes to the survey.

It wasn't a survey. I'm just talking about people I know. I asked a lot of people, and I don't know anyone who could afford to pay the non-subsidised price of tuition if they saved money from all their taxes.

The few people, who could probably afford it, are even higher on the socio-economic ladder than I am. I have never met or spoken to them, but I know they exist because I know of 2 schools that only the richest of the rich can afford to attend, and I see people leaving that place and even I am shocked that they live in Jamaica because collectively they don't look Jamaican at all; I seem hypocritical here, because many Jamaicans think I'm not Jamaican, but these people are further from it than I am. These persons don't get groomed to attend university in the Caribbean; I've never met anyone at my university who is from those schools I mentioned.

It's not the taxes strictly from Jamaican students that go towards subsidising tertiary tuition in Jamaica; it's the taxes from people in most CARICOM countries (especially the upper class and upper-middle class). As I said, these people aren't the ones attending university here, because they go abroad. Even while paying taxes, they have money left over to afford expensive education abroad (though some of them get scholarships). Taxes work like insurance sometimes when it's for a public service. You use everyone's taxes to fund hospitals; not everyone attends the hospital at the same time. You use everyone's taxes to fund education; not everyone is in the same level (or even any level) of education/school at the same time. Not every household has someone who attends school, so you would have households without children whose taxes are going towards education which benefits households with children. That's how Collectivism works; we have reached a point in society where we have a surplus of production, so the surplus can be distributed to meet everyone's needs. If you left it up to each individual to pay for only what he/she needed, some persons would be able to afford everything that they need (and more), and some persons would not be able to afford to satisfy all of their needs.

And to say that the wealthy should not pay for the poor to go to school would make you seem like a terrible person (I'm not sure if you would mind that). The fact is that the average poor Jamaican could not afford tertiary tuition if the average wealthy Jamaican was not paying taxes towards it. People don't choose to be born poor, and I don't think that a child born into poverty should suffer when being born into such a situation was not his/her choice.

[PaleRider]

Remember, 'freedom' doesn't just mean complete liberty from any sort of government intervention (i.e. 'negative freedom'). There's also positive freedom, meaning the liberty to have things, such as healthcare and education. So the government might not tax you very high, but are you free if you are riddled with debt; if you can't pay your healthcare bills? Ok, so the government might not be jailing you for expressing a dissenting opinion, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're free. The irony is that Americans claim to be the most free nation on earth, and yet they're all in debt to insurance and mortgage companies while desperately trying to scrape together a few bucks to pay off their collage loans. FREEDOM!!!

EDIT: This might not be strictly on topic, but the conversation seemed to drift this way a few times so I thought I'd weigh in with my two pence. Or cents. Whatever.

I think the bigger question to be asked here is not how we prevent people from running into debt, but why is costs so much for healthcare and education? Why does it cost 7 grand to set a broken bone? Why does it cost 20k a semester to go to a mid level college? We should be focusing on lowering costs, not infinitely subsidizing life while costs rise.

[CanadianEh]

Remember, 'freedom' doesn't just mean complete liberty from any sort of government intervention (i.e. 'negative freedom'). There's also positive freedom, meaning the liberty to have things, such as healthcare and education. So the government might not tax you very high, but are you free if you are riddled with debt; if you can't pay your healthcare bills? Ok, so the government might not be jailing you for expressing a dissenting opinion, but it doesn't necessarily mean you're free. The irony is that Americans claim to be the most free nation on earth, and yet they're all in debt to insurance and mortgage companies while desperately trying to scrape together a few bucks to pay off their collage loans. FREEDOM!!!

EDIT: This might not be strictly on topic, but the conversation seemed to drift this way a few times so I thought I'd weigh in with my two pence. Or cents. Whatever.

I think the bigger question to be asked here is not how we prevent people from running into debt, but why is costs so much for healthcare and education? Why does it cost 7 grand to set a broken bone? Why does it cost 20k a semester to go to a mid level college? We should be focusing on lowering costs, not infinitely subsidizing life while costs rise.

Oooo, I really like this. Oh and I said in a prior post that Canadian Universities cost about $4,000 a year but it's a lot more.