Immigration Reform in the US

[PaleRider]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/i-barack-1416531449
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 ... rich-lowry

Last night, President Obama legalized some 5 million illegal immigrants with the wisk of a pen. No debate. No Congressional consultation and/or approval. The wisk of a pen. It saddens me to say this has set the immigration reform debate back years, never mind the complete collapse of norms in our Constitutional Republic.
As the WSJ editorial notes, there has over the past 2-ish years been a growing debate, especially in the GOP over the need for immigration reform, something I would support as well. Instead of taking the long hard road of working with Congress in a pieacemeal process which would seal reforms in and win Obama a major domestic legislative accomplishment that would grow less contentious overtime (unlike Obamacare).
Instead he opted for war. The GOP can now go nowhere near the issue without conservatives raising hell. The President has so poisoned the wells of cooperation and progress in this area that it will take until at least the next Congress and President to work out immigration reform. This abashedly political move is intent on putting the GOP into a corner, after be revitalized with a fresh and serious mid-term victory which took them to a new Senate Majority and a larger House Majority.
Personally, I feel the GOP should block all possible funding for this measure, halt confirmation of all non-national security related appointees and pass a series of resolutions condemning the President and his actions. A broader government shutdown and/or impeachment would surely backfire. A series of small, narrow sighted immigration reform bills could be introduced to try and show Obama is being disingenuous but a comprehensive immigration reform bill is out of the question.

[Afrocentric]

1. Pale, if you are going to bash Obama, you have to bash Bush as well as Reagan who pretty much did the same thing Obama did. Immigration isn't something that magically rose up during the last 2 years, it's been going on for awhile now and nobody has done a thing about it.

2. Your suggestion of Obstructionism, will hurt the GOP in 2016. Have you forgotten we control Congress? People actually expect some sort of RESULTS and not lip service.

3. If it was up to me, I'd build a damn fence and electrify it. I'm not against immigration and in fact welcome it, but I don't want illegals in my country. They come over here and have kids, don't pay taxes and put unnecessary stress on the system. Some politicians even think HC should be given to these law breakers!!! Not trying to be mean or anything, but they need to go back to where the hell they came from. Screw amnesty, round them up and deport them ASAP.

[CanadianEh]

What afro is saying is true, Bush virtually did the exact same thing.

[soysauce]

Well, this is a shitstorm over nothing if there ever was one...

The 5 million offered some basic status in the US were going nowhere anyway, they're parents of permanent US residents and US citizens who you never were going to deport anyway, the majority are people who were brought over at a very young age and have never known anywhere other than the US.

It's hardly a mass amnesty, stop over-inflating it.

[Afrocentric]

Well, this is a shitstorm over nothing if there ever was one...

The 5 million offered some basic status in the US were going nowhere anyway, they're parents of permanent US residents and US citizens who you never were going to deport anyway, the majority are people who were brought over at a very young age and have never known anywhere other than the US.

It's hardly a mass amnesty, stop over-inflating it.

Accept that it is mass amnesty. These people didn't come here legally now did they? NO. So why should we be rewarding them with citizenship? I for one do not want to live in Little Guadalajara where the language is Spanish and the crime rate is high as hell. You might want to live there, but I don't. Again, I'm not saying all of those people are bad, but some of them who do come here illegally bring the cartel/gang baggage with them and start ruthless gangs like the Sureños and Mexican Mafia.

[TheNewGuy]

I agree with Afro. I also hate those damn Italians that came and brought their mafia, those damn Irish and their alcoholism, etc. etc.

Keep America WASPy!

[CanadianEh]

I agree with Afro. I also hate those damn Italians that came and brought their mafia, those damn Irish and their alcoholism, etc. etc.

Keep America WASPy!

I disagree with you their as those are both stereotypes, not all, not even a large number of Italian-Americans have association or are in the Mafia. Not all of the Irish-Americans are alcoholics or anything close to it. I think that many Mexican & Latin-Americans deserve to be in America I would though as well prefer them do it legally.

[Afrocentric]

I agree with Afro. I also hate those damn Italians that came and brought their mafia, those damn Irish and their alcoholism, etc. etc.

Keep America WASPy!

They came over legally IIRC and besides, the Irish Mob and Mafia has pretty much vanished from prominence since the 1920s. Also, why would I be in favor of keeping the USA WASPy? Seems kind of contradictory when you think about it.

[PaleRider]

Well, this is a shitstorm over nothing if there ever was one...

The 5 million offered some basic status in the US were going nowhere anyway, they're parents of permanent US residents and US citizens who you never were going to deport anyway, the majority are people who were brought over at a very young age and have never known anywhere other than the US.

It's hardly a mass amnesty, stop over-inflating it.

Just b/c its practical doesn't make it legal or acceptable simply to go around Congress and grant de facto amnesty to people who came here illegally. Its a giant slap in the face for those who came here through the legal process and it there should've been more open debate on the matter and a more serious push from Obama to engage Republicans and Congress as a whole.
On a side note, its another striking symptom of how little effort Obama has put in to building key Congressional relationships from players on both sides of the aisle to get his legislation and ideas through. He spent too little time in the Senate to make concrete relationships and has only been on the national political stage since 2004 when he gave the keynote address at the Democratic Convention.

Personally, I feel that immigration reform should be broken up into smaller bills and addressed as such. Border security enhancement and reform is a must and should be the first to pass. Not only is it sound policy to keep illegal immigrants out, but this would also help combat human trafficking and have the country be better able to manage large scale migration issues like the one that erupted with the child migration issue earlier this summer.
Second, we should focus on helping those waiting in line to come here legally first before helping illegals. This should include reforming the immigration laws in general to streamline the process, focusing on those with higher skill sets and clear benefits for the country and keeping criminals and terrorists out. We also need greater oversight of the refugee program as well and restrictions on how many family members outside the immediate family can be brought over as well.
Finally we should help illegals get some sort of cover. Illegals should register with the immigration authorities and be granted a year reprieve to tidy up their act, be subject to a background check and drug testing. If any red flags are raised such fraud, felonies or even questionable associations (with groups like the Cartels and terrorist organizations) they then have 6 months to pack up their stuff and get out, hell the government can even pay for the plane ticket back to their country. Any repeat offenders such as those who come to America repeatedly and get deported repeatedly should be denied staying here and immediately deported.
Having gone through that process, illegals who are now "straight" with the law as the President claims should be given permanent resident status but forever denied citizenship. As the price for coming here illegally, and not through the legal channels no current illegal immigrant should ever be granted citizenship. I'm for giving them permanent resident status for the rest of their days but no citizenship. This means illegals can't vote in any election, no federal welfare like Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid (though it will be up to each state to determine if they should be eligible for state run benefits) but they must pay taxes. Say its unfair all you want, its the only thing that will work as both a means to assimilate the population and a means to dis-encourage more illegal immigration. Any illegal young enough to join the armed forces can do so and after serving a full enlistment (illegals should be denied access to the officer corps and officer programs) they can petition to have full citizenship so long as there is no serious disciplinary action taken against them. Or they could serve in the Peace Corps, or AmeriCorps for 8 years and if they have a record of honorable service, then they too can petition for full citizenship and then go through the process to get it as a normal immigrant would.

This of course leads to the issue of anchor children. Parents who are illegal but with legal US children. Congress much exercise its power under the 14th Amendment to restrict natural born US citizens to having at least one legal US parent to gain natural born citizens. Thus if a recently moved in immigrant family with permanent status has a kid in America, the child is a US citizen. But if the two parents are here temporarily or here illegally then the child is not a US citizen.

Finally Congress must establish flexible but firm immigration caps. We cannot keep the flood gates open forever. Sooner or later the country must temper the flow of immigrants so we can assimilate them into our society and nation. Further in bad or tough economic times (like the current ones) we need to definitely restrict the flow of immigration. Not only does it rob our citizens of jobs, it also undermines the case for legal immigration as it serves as a modicum of conflict and tension. We should be generous when we can so we can help those who want to come here, and when times get tough here economically, then we should lower immigration. Bringing people over here just to put them on welfare or in social conflict with persons already here makes no sense and helps no one.

1. Pale, if you are going to bash Obama, you have to bash Bush as well as Reagan who pretty much did the same thing Obama did. Immigration isn't something that magically rose up during the last 2 years, it's been going on for awhile now and nobody has done a thing about it.

Hardly. Reagan worked with a divided Congress (sound familiar) to pass immigration reform in the late 1980's and his orders complimented what Congress had already or was already going to approve. Instead of blackmailing Congress and circumventing their legislative authority, both Reagan and Bush worked with Congress and the law to establish proper executive orders regarding immigration. Each president can exercise discretion and concentrate resources were need be. This president has gone far beyond that and is pledging not to enforce the law for a certain group of people because he disagrees with the law.
I might disagree with the Affordable Care Act but you don't see me saying we need to openly flout the law. The law is the law. We are a nation built in part on the rule of law. You don't like it? Work with Congress to change it. Just because Congress won't do exactly what you want doesn't mean you make law for yourself.

2. Your suggestion of Obstructionism, will hurt the GOP in 2016. Have you forgotten we control Congress? People actually expect some sort of RESULTS and not lip service.

So are you saying we should stand by and do nothing as the President shreds constitutional norms and law? Congress must assert itself to check the presidency in this matter. That being said, I am currently not in favor of starting impeachment proceedings or another government shutdown, however strong and serious actions must be taken to show that the Congress disagrees with the President. That means resolutions, that means funding restriction, that means hearings and investigations. Keep the pressure up on all fronts. We must fight.

I agree with Afro. I also hate those damn Italians that came and brought their mafia, those damn Irish and their alcoholism, etc. etc.

Keep America WASPy!

If you're an Arab who wants to come to America, be a contributing member of society, and adopt our norms and customs that I will welcome you with open arms. If not, stay out. Same goes for any Africa, Chinaman, European or Hispanic.

[MichaelReilly]

Nationalism. Humanity's worst poison.