Capitalism vs. Socialism

[SelucianCrusader]

In my world at least, socialism means "collective ownership of the means of production". Not necessarily the same as a planned economy, but very similar.

One doesn't have to be a socialist to support a mixed economy or a welfare state. By that definition, George W Bush would also be a socialist.

[CanadianEh]

In world at least, socialism means "collective ownership of the means of production". Not necessarily the same as a planned economy, but very similar.

One doesn't have to be a socialist to support a mixed economy or a welfare state. By that definition, George W Bush would also be a socialist.

I would argue that even though George W. Bush was more Centre-Right to Centre when it came to welfare programs but that's doesn't make him a Socialist.

[Kubrick]

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[soysauce]

In most cases Business (Big & Small) is good for the people. Business provide for their workers and deacrease unemployment rates. All the government has to do is ensure that no single business is monopolizing the market.

Unfortunately due to business prioritizing profit above all else in spite of the jobs created workers remain in poverty. This is where unrestricted capitalism falls, living standards of workers are of little consequence to employers, so long as they remain fit to work. Moderate Socialism in this case would regulate to force companies to provide a decent wage and living standards for all.

Seems fairly logical to me, the people's government makes regulations to protect the workers from exploitation. I think the rights of the many to fair payment for work comes before the rights of the few to make money.

While all of those things would be good, an economy cannot function well with a high minimum wage of $18 or $19/hour because it would severley hurt small businesses as well as big ones facing bankruptcy. Then the people are out of jobs, jobs that Socialism lost them.

That's where you have your balance between pure socialism and capitalism, a high minimum wage is nessecary but not one so high that it genuinely destroys jobs.

[Zongxian]

In world at least, socialism means "collective ownership of the means of production". Not necessarily the same as a planned economy, but very similar.

One doesn't have to be a socialist to support a mixed economy or a welfare state. By that definition, George W Bush would also be a socialist.

I would argue that even though George W. Bush was more Centre-Right to Centre when it came to welfare programs but that's doesn't make him a Socialist.

He was a "compassionate conservative," as they like to brand themselves.

Also relevant, Christian democrats aren't called socialists, yet they can be quite "socialistic" when it comes to social programs, depending on the country. While I'm not Christian, it is unfortunate that Christian democracy doesn't have a presence in the US, I feel it would be quite popular and support some important policies.

That said, at the core I believe in capitalism and I enjoy what it brings to society. I also recognize the flaws that exist and believe that regulations should be in place to reduce or eliminate the worst side effects of free market capitalism while still allowing for reasonable ease in the business environment. I'd say more, but typing on mobile is not fun!

[Farsun]

Overall, the problem comes down to the fact that people associated Social welfare programs with "socialism" or "liberalism" when in reality it was German conservatives who brought us our first large-scale welfare systems. That's a point that I adhere to as someone who is a "conservative" because I believe in capitalism but I also believe in a strong, efficient welfare system for those who cannot help themselves or have fallen on hard times.

Socialism kind of lost steam when the USSR collapsed, truthfully, most people are ignorant of what these ideologies are or what core tenants they have. I can't claim to know all about it, but a good majority of people don't have a damn clue.

[SelucianCrusader]

Overall, the problem comes down to the fact that people associated Social welfare programs with "socialism" or "liberalism" when in reality it was German conservatives who brought us our first large-scale welfare systems. That's a point that I adhere to as someone who is a "conservative" because I believe in capitalism but I also believe in a strong, efficient welfare system for those who cannot help themselves or have fallen on hard times.

^QFE

It's strange how conservatism became synonymous with neoliberalism in some places.

[Siggon Kristov]

Overall, the problem comes down to the fact that people associated Social welfare programs with "socialism" or "liberalism" when in reality it was German conservatives who brought us our first large-scale welfare systems. That's a point that I adhere to as someone who is a "conservative" because I believe in capitalism but I also believe in a strong, efficient welfare system for those who cannot help themselves or have fallen on hard times.

^QFE

It's strange how conservatism became synonymous with neoliberalism in some places.

Depends on what you call Conservatism...
There is the actual ideology of Conservatism, which is linked to Hobbes' theory of the state.
There is social conservatism, which is about conserving traditional moral values.
There is political conservatism, which is about conserving a political system and opposing reform.
There is fiscal conservatism, which fits well with Hayek's Liberalism and a minimal role of the state.

[SelucianCrusader]

Overall, the problem comes down to the fact that people associated Social welfare programs with "socialism" or "liberalism" when in reality it was German conservatives who brought us our first large-scale welfare systems. That's a point that I adhere to as someone who is a "conservative" because I believe in capitalism but I also believe in a strong, efficient welfare system for those who cannot help themselves or have fallen on hard times.

^QFE

It's strange how conservatism became synonymous with neoliberalism in some places.

Depends on what you call Conservatism...
There is the actual ideology of Conservatism, which is linked to Hobbes' theory of the state.
There is social conservatism, which is about conserving traditional moral values.
There is political conservatism, which is about conserving a political system and opposing reform.
There is fiscal conservatism, which fits well with Hayek's Liberalism and a minimal role of the state.

I generally refer to the ideology of (Burkean) Conservatism, though it's broader than that. The ideologue I've read the most is Wilhelm Röpke, who classified himself as an ordoliberal, but whose idea about the economy and society at large fits very well into social conservatism in general.

[Darkylightytwo]

Capitalism relies on exploitation, of the workers, and nature. I don't believe in this system.

To me, until now, we have seen two system, Private capitalism (USA) and state capitalism (China),

I believe in a Ecological Democratic Communist Market system.