America is mad....

[soysauce]

As you all probably know I've expressed this opinion quite a few times, both on and off this forum and much to the irritation of more than a few Americans. However this time I think I have some sort of proof, I mean when a country starts vriminalising vulnerable young people simply for being vulnerable young people then you know that something is seriously wrong...

Take a look at this:http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-transgender-girl-rights-violated-0609-20150608-story.html

[Siggon Kristov]

I mean when a country starts criminalising vulnerable young people simply for being vulnerable young people then you know that something is seriously wrong...

This is what I was talking about with people who are Black/coloured, poor, or LGBT.

[MichaelReilly]

The way in which America treats its criminals, particularly children, is sickening.

Remember that case about a year ago of those two 12-year-old girls who stabbed their classmate thinking slenderman told them to do it? They were paraded around the media and led into the courtroom in chains and tried as adults. 12-year-olds. In chains. In a 21st century liberal democracy.

[Amazeroth]

As you all probably know I've expressed this opinion quite a few times, both on and off this forum and much to the irritation of more than a few Americans. However this time I think I have some sort of proof, I mean when a country starts vriminalising vulnerable young people simply for being vulnerable young people then you know that something is seriously wrong...

Take a look at this:http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-transgender-girl-rights-violated-0609-20150608-story.html

That's not what's being done, though, at least according to this abbysmally written article. First, she's not being criminalised for being vulnerable. She's not even criminalised. She apparently came under the DCF's authority because she attacked others (although it's hard to determine what it was exactly, thanks to the writing), and the DCF is saying that they're not adequately able to protect her and others from her, so they want to transfer her to an adult prison. Nowhere in the article it's stated that she's a criminal, or that anyone would do that because she's a criminal. This is akin to taking dangerous mentally challenged patients into custody even without them having actually attacked someone. The only thing that's in question is apparently whether the law takes the interests of the child in question enough. And that's a problem you basically have in every civilised nation, not only the US.

But it's interesting to see here just how ready people are to follow their prejudices when it's about America ...

[soysauce]

I'm guessing you've not read up on the background to this case,

The girl was taken into the care of the DCF aged 12 after nearly eight years of abuse because she was transgender, mainly characterised by regular physical and sexual assault. While under the custody of the DCF this apparently continued and she was held inappropriately in male facilities. Aged 15 while still in DCF custody she was apparently forced into prostitution.

Given that background you would kinda expect that she would have a few problems, and the incident that had her sent to prison without trial was an assault on a member of staff where she was restrained from behind by a male member of staff (who was later dismissed). Doing that to any girl would kick off some defensive mechanism but to her with a history of abuse it was never gonna end well.

So here's my point, prison is totally inappropriate in this situation, that should be self evident. That imprisonment without trial is unacceptable should be self evident but that is overshadowed by the staggering welfare issues. Firstly the duty of a care organisation is to provide care, transgender people require enough support as it is but a transgender survivor of sustained and severe abuse needs treatment, placing her in a prison environment would deny her that and so risk her mental health. Secondly prisons in general are harsh places, and American prisons are notorious for terrible conditions verging on psychological torture at times, a fundimental contradiction of the DCF's duty of care. Even in more civilised regimes suicide rates at womens prisons are staggeringly high.

On multiple occasions it was proposed to place her in the general population of an adult male prison, which is practically a death sentence, she'd be raped and the chances are she'd either take her own life or be killed. The alternative would be to place her in solitary confinement but thats torture in itself.



I don't know Amaz, woulda hoped that you would have done your homework. I cant really believe that you'd actually think that prison is an appropriate place for people like Jane Doe here, she needs care, denying it would be inhuman.


http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2014/ ... ult-prison

[Amazeroth]

First, I was going from the article you chose to post. Secondly, she's still not being criminalised. I also completely agree with you that prison is in no way the appropriate place for her, all I said is that that's not something in any way unique to America.

[soysauce]

Personally I wasn't gonna make much of this (hence my rather silly title) since to be honest I don't think cases like this have any shock value any more. I used that article since it simply reflects on the relative absurdity of the situation rather than focusing on the finer details, having said that if you want to make accusations then I would expect you to know what you're talking about.

I would challenge you to name a developed society where a child protection agency has the ability to discharge a vulnerable person to the criminal justice system. Certainly in the majority of them it would be common practice to detain such a person, perhaps against their will. However in any civil society this would be in an appropriately equipped mental health unit, not an adult prison and certainly not one for the opposite gender. While not officially "criminalised" by the system the treatment she would receive in a prison would most likely impart that impression on her. Indeed the fact that she was held in prison would remain on her record and be about as effective as a criminal record in denying her future employment. Thus it would be laughable to suggest that she was not criminalised in any way by the process

[Amazeroth]

Personally I wasn't gonna make much of this (hence my rather silly title) since to be honest I don't think cases like this have any shock value any more. I used that article since it simply reflects on the relative absurdity of the situation rather than focusing on the finer details, having said that if you want to make accusations then I would expect you to know what you're talking about.

I would challenge you to name a developed society where a child protection agency has the ability to discharge a vulnerable person to the criminal justice system. Certainly in the majority of them it would be common practice to detain such a person, perhaps against their will. However in any civil society this would be in an appropriately equipped mental health unit, not an adult prison and certainly not one for the opposite gender. While not officially "criminalised" by the system the treatment she would receive in a prison would most likely impart that impression on her. Indeed the fact that she was held in prison would remain on her record and be about as effective as a criminal record in denying her future employment. Thus it would be laughable to suggest that she was not criminalised in any way by the process

Not any more criminalised as someone who's detained against their will because he's mentally challenged. However, apart from that, I'm going to see if I can find any other supposedly civilised countries that allow for that procedure, or similarly bad stuff. If I can't find anything, I will agree that this part of the US (an, if you will, by proxy the US for allowing their states to do that) is less civilised.