Hillary or Trump?

Anything that is not directly related to the game or its community.

Who should be the next President of the United States?

Hillary Clinton
29
54%
Donald Trump
25
46%
 
Total votes : 54

Re: Hillary or Trump?

Postby hts » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:57 pm

I think too many people are using the fact that Trump lost the popular vote to claim that the Republicans do not have a true mandate to govern. However, considering that they have a majority in both houses, a majority of governorships, and control of the majority of state legislatures, I would say that they do have a legitimate mandate.

I hear a lot of people saying that any other Dem would have beaten Trump, and I agree. However, the reality is that any normal republican would have swept the floor with Clinton. They were both terrible candidates.
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Re: Hillary or Trump?

Postby Doc » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:09 pm

Hrafn wrote:The left-liberal hegemony is falling.


Again- it appears that, for both Leftists and anti-Leftists, that there is this common mis-perception that everything which has been changed in the last 8 years is all just going to roll back, and all the people that fought for it are now all of a sudden going to just disappear. We see this in statements like the above, and we see it in all of fear from marginalized communities in the US. Like- the good days of bulldozing change is over, so lets everyone get into the time machine and lets go back, I suppose to 1950. It's all over, it was nice while it lasted, but I guess we have to retcon history now that Trump was elected.

But- Nothing Changes, Nothing reverses. We are never going back. The gains of the people will be defended and they will be expanded. The left-liberal hegemony isn't failing. Not with the unpopular election of Donald Trump- He won the electoral College, but he lost the popular vote. The GOP retains the majority in the House and the Senate, but they lost seats in both, and their majority will be smaller when they reconvene than it was before the election. And a host of progressive ballot measures on marijuana reform and minimum wages passed across the country, which seem to point to the fact that people like progressive politics, even if they don't like progressive politicians. More people stand against Trump than stand for him, for whatever reason. The pro-Trumpsters are still in the minority, of the electorate and of the society, so...

If the forces of regression think we're going to let them have this, they got another thing coming, because they didn't win shit, except the right to call one of their own "Mr. President".
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Re: Hillary or Trump?

Postby MichaelReilly » Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:33 pm

You've gotta wonder how anybody with any professed interest in politics can have the audacity to state there has been a 'left-liberal hegemony'.

Globalisation, monetarism, neoliberalism, disastrous neoconservative foreign policy, persistent winning of elections by the centre-right, the current rise in the populist radical right, the complete watering-down of social democracy, the collapse of Leninism.

In what sense, at any point, as the Left ever been in a hegemony? How far to the right does your politics need to be to consider the last 40 years a period of Leftism?

And as for the claims that the gains made for bettering the lives of the poorest and most vulnerable won't or can't be reversed, you don't need to look back very far in history to find when they were. The gains of the post-war settlement were whittled away from the mid-1970s, and then smashed in a full-frontal attack from the 1980s. The effects were utterly devastating. Regressive politics had the ability to destroy the economic base of social justice. It today has the ability to destroy the social base.
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Re: Hillary or Trump?

Postby hts » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:23 am

Doc wrote:people like progressive politics, even if they don't like progressive politicians.

+1
Doc wrote:progressive ballot measures on marijuana reform

Jesus Christ can we get this legalized already. Marijuana prohibition is ridiculous and everyone knows it. I can't believe that so many conservatives are still holding on to this load of crap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pzoJVnPblI
(Not a Johnson fan but this is actually comical)
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Re: Hillary or Trump?

Postby Doc » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:43 am

hts wrote:
Doc wrote:progressive ballot measures on marijuana reform

Jesus Christ can we get this legalized already. Marijuana prohibition is ridiculous and everyone knows it. I can't believe that so many conservatives are still holding on to this load of crap.


+1 here.

It would be nice to take some of this stupid shit off the table...

A Majority of Americans now support the end of prohibition.
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Re: Hillary or Trump?

Postby Doc » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:49 am

MichaelReilly wrote:You've gotta wonder how anybody with any professed interest in politics can have the audacity to state there has been a 'left-liberal hegemony'.

Globalisation, monetarism, neoliberalism, disastrous neoconservative foreign policy, persistent winning of elections by the centre-right, the current rise in the populist radical right, the complete watering-down of social democracy, the collapse of Leninism.

In what sense, at any point, as the Left ever been in a hegemony? How far to the right does your politics need to be to consider the last 40 years a period of Leftism?

And as for the claims that the gains made for bettering the lives of the poorest and most vulnerable won't or can't be reversed, you don't need to look back very far in history to find when they were. The gains of the post-war settlement were whittled away from the mid-1970s, and then smashed in a full-frontal attack from the 1980s. The effects were utterly devastating. Regressive politics had the ability to destroy the economic base of social justice. It today has the ability to destroy the social base.


For the record, I was not claiming a "left-liberal hegemony." I was using the terms of others. I believe this country is and has been for a very long time, incredibly regressive. Gay marriage? How much more conservative a policy do we need than one which reinforces the bonds of matrimony? It is only progressive because it expands legal rights to more people, something its opponents inexplicably oppose. Allowing more people to participate in an incredibly traditionalist institution like marriage is not progressive at all in my opinion.

As for your second claim, you may have a point that I can concede. But it took 40 years of apathy and ambivalence to allow that to happen. It certainly not happen in 4, and it doesn't necessarily have to happen either, if those people who are out there fighting for these issues just keep doing exactly what they are doing now. But, you know, if the Left becomes defeatist, fatalist and becomes willing to concede the debate just because one dude will win the majority of EC votes when they are cast, rolling back the gains will be a whole lot easier for the Right.
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Re: Hillary or Trump?

Postby UniSocAll » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:59 am

It''s, what, the morning of Day 6 of Trump's victory, and he's already gone back on a few of his promises:
- ACA won't be repealed but will remain mostly largely in it's current state
- the Wall has been downgraded to partially a fence and built on US territory paid by the USA (at first)
- He's only going to deport a small percentage of illegal immigrants and will look for amnesty for a majority of them
- He's not going to repeal Marriage Equality and announced that that was already settled
- He's not going to drain the swamp and will not prosecute Clinton, but instead make the swamp deeper by appointing alligators to cabinet spots

Can't wait to see which promise he will be breaking today!

On a serious note, I don't know if this was a long con, or if it was meeting with Obama, or if it was the effect of the protest, or maybe Ivanka, or a combination of all of these, but this President-Elect Trump is already much better than Candidate Trump. Of course, assuming he's actually serious about these and won't flip-flop-flip again while actually in office, because the people he's surrounding himself with probably don't support all of these flips. One must wonder if the Republicans might be the one trying to impeach him for his fraud case, since he's going back on so many promises; Mike Pence would be someone they might prefer instead of Trump in general, but especially this version of Donald Trump.

I'd also like to point out that if President-Elect Trump ran for President, he would have also lost the election to Candidate Trump.
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Re: Hillary or Trump?

Postby Doc » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:45 am

UniSocAll wrote:I'd also like to point out that if President-Elect Trump ran for President, he would have also lost the election to Candidate Trump.
-


That's for sure. I bet some of his folks are already getting a taste of buyers remorse...

Oh well. They decided that they wanted someone who was going to blow up the system. Electing a President to blow up the system is like trying to remove a mountain with a firecracker.
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Re: Hillary or Trump?

Postby MichaelReilly » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:51 am

UniSocAll wrote:I'd also like to point out that if President-Elect Trump ran for President, he would have also lost the election to Candidate Trump.


Of course he would. Fascism is actually pretty difficult to implement in a system such as the United States. 'Ban all Muslims' can never happen in the US. Didn't stop moronic fascists from voting for him though...
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Re: Hillary or Trump?

Postby Siggon Kristov » Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:43 pm

My take on the US election: https://t.co/i5thk7e477
Check out my latest Particracy project, and feel free to discuss it in the forums.
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