Hillary or Trump?

[jamescfm]

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[Doc]

I'm a right-wing european liberal and let me tell you this. The prospect of a Trump presidency both thrills and scares me at the same time.

Following I side with I agree with 81% with Trump, his attacks on the left and how he crushed them is terrific and beautifull. clip

Except, Clinton actually got more votes than Trump did- She got 400,000 more votes (and counting) than he did. 400,000 is more people than live in Miami FL and every city smaller than that.

Understanding the way we select our Presidents reveals that the people elected Hillary Clinton, the System elected Donald Trump.

In any country with direct election of the executive, Trump wouldn't have won. So saying that he "crushed them" is not accurate.... He crushed the rural white vote, earned only 26% of the total number of eligible voters, and carried none of the major population centers. He has no mandate. Half of his own Party hates him, and a significant number of his own Party campaigned against him.

Trump was elected by a fluke. Yeah, he gets to be the President, by the rules of the system, but he didn't even earn as many votes in the Electoral College as Obama did in his worst election. No matter how Trump "crushed" all the progressives and the left, Obama still beat the stuffing out of him, twice. And so, technically did Hillary.

[SelucianCrusader]

I'm a right-wing european liberal and let me tell you this. The prospect of a Trump presidency both thrills and scares me at the same time.

Following I side with I agree with 81% with Trump, his attacks on the left and how he crushed them is terrific and beautifull. The progressives have lost the voters mostly because they are out of touch with the people. The whole idea that limiting immigration and deporting illegals is seen as racist by the leftist media and politicians showcases this.

But what fears me is that he lacks expierence, Is a bit of a nut and his ideas about NATO scare me the most. I wanted a Republican win in the USA because this peacefull dove strategy of Obama is not working.

We're kinda on the same page. I think there are a few lessons to be learnt from the Donald as well: don't be afraid of provocation and don't let your opponent decide the discourse. Many of us conservatives, conservative liberals, libertarians etc. are way to often concerned with being to "nice" and ignoring the many weak spots of progressives such as the over-sensitiveness, irrational egalitarianism etc. - a favour they never return of course.

At least it feels like America will be recognizable as America again. The country that the left-wing mainstream media used to hate when I was young... that reminded us that another world was possible (whenever we want it or not). Had Hillary won - presumably a lot of young conservatives/alt-righters etc. would have been driven in the hands of Putin as America has been known as the country of Trigglypuffs, "safe spaces" and ethnic-nationalism-disguised-as-anti-racism (BLM etc.) totally contrary to the values the country was founded upon.

[jamescfm]

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[Zanz]

You guys seen this? (it does have pretty strong profanity).

[MichaelReilly]

the values the country was founded upon.

You mean the enlightenment values of equality, fraternity and liberty?

Or is that all just oversensitiveness and irrational egalitarianism...?

[Doc]

At least it feels like America will be recognizable as America again.

I suppose all the people that made America the way you oppose have now suddenly vanished. Like any of them needed permission from the Government to promote and accomplish social change, right? So, now America will turn from dystopia to America again over night? Where all the immigrants and gays are gone again, and where the minority in conservative rural white America sets the cultural agenda for the rest of us, right?

All the social change that the Right opposes is going to be reversed by an election? An election where the Right didn't actually win?

The Right may repeal the Obama in Obamacare, but Trump has already signaled his support for the entire rest of the bill... And he has said that he will be the best President for gay Americans, whatever his conversion therapist VP says... and etc...

I wouldn't hold my breath if you think the US is ever going back to the way the Right thinks it was...

[jamescfm]

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[UniSocAll]

You guys seen this? (it does have pretty strong profanity).

The point he's missing is that progressives can barely convince other progressives on things like GMO or vaccines, now imagine trying to persuade someone who thinks that men should be men, or that global warming isn't a thing. As someone who has tried, it really isn't easy at all when the feeling is everything is rigged, the mainstream media lies to you, scientists are colluding against the people, and when they start citing Breitbart as a news source.

The fact remains, Trump got less votes that Romney did four years ago, but those who voted for Obama in big numbers didn't come out for Clinton. In fact, Clinton has a good shot at winning 2, and maybe as much as 5, if there were no third party candidates. Indeed, some states blatantly had voter suppression thanks to the SC striking down VRA protections. 10% less polls in some states, some people having to go 25 mi. to their nearest voting places, and long lines making voting impossible for people who don't get or can't afford time off work. That is besides the fact that any other corrupt politician wouldn't have had so much attention to their 'crookedness' but suddenly a woman is considered old, frail, weak, and super-corrupt. You had people thinking that being married to an alleged rapist is worse than an alleged rapist.

[jamescfm]

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