The Best US President?

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Who was the best President of the United States?

John F. Kennedy
4
13%
Lyndon B. Johnson
7
23%
Richard Nixon
2
6%
Gerald Ford
0
No votes
Jimmy Carter
3
10%
Ronald Reagan
8
26%
George H. W. Bush
0
No votes
Bill Clinton
1
3%
George W. Bush
0
No votes
Barack Obama
6
19%
 
Total votes : 31

Re: The Best US President?

Postby Reddy » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:03 am

Richard Nixon obviously. School desegregation, environmental protection, black capitalism, EITC, detente, ending the Vietnam war, injecting realism in fo-po...phew. The man achieved a lot and got ousted for doing something not too different his two sainted predecessors (among others) did. I've never understood Kennedy admiration in particular since he achieved practically nothing of note. I'd have picked LBJ but considering his Great Society's effects on the African Americans and other minorities, ugh.

Had the choices been wider, I'd have picked Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln as well.
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Re: The Best US President?

Postby UniSocAll » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:48 am

Reddy wrote:Richard Nixon obviously. School desegregation, environmental protection, black capitalism, EITC, detente, ending the Vietnam war, injecting realism in fo-po...phew. The man achieved a lot and got ousted for doing something not too different his two sainted predecessors (among others) did. I've never understood Kennedy admiration in particular since he achieved practically nothing of note. I'd have picked LBJ but considering his Great Society's effects on the African Americans and other minorities, ugh.

Had the choices been wider, I'd have picked Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln as well.


Didn't Nixon also start the Drug War that disenfranchised an entire group of population?

That's why I can't vote Nixon nor Reagan - their policies have been disastrous for many Americans. I chose Obama for what he represented, and what was accomplished under his reign. It was also easier being able to witness his presidency.
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Re: The Best US President?

Postby SelucianCrusader » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:00 pm

Tempted to pick GWB because I guess no one else will, but have to be honest - there's only one universal symbol of American values the list:

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Re: The Best US President?

Postby Reddy » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:25 pm

UniSocAll wrote:
Reddy wrote:Richard Nixon obviously. School desegregation, environmental protection, black capitalism, EITC, detente, ending the Vietnam war, injecting realism in fo-po...phew. The man achieved a lot and got ousted for doing something not too different his two sainted predecessors (among others) did. I've never understood Kennedy admiration in particular since he achieved practically nothing of note. I'd have picked LBJ but considering his Great Society's effects on the African Americans and other minorities, ugh.

Had the choices been wider, I'd have picked Teddy Roosevelt and Lincoln as well.


Didn't Nixon also start the Drug War that disenfranchised an entire group of population?


He did start the Drug War but that doesn't invalidate all his other achievements in my view. I'm not sure what the "disenfranchisement" you are talking about is. I'm opposed to drug legalisation anyway so while i have some misgivings about the War on Drugs, I'm not completely opposed to its objectives. I do think that penalties could be made less punitive and more reformative though.
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Re: The Best US President?

Postby Zanz » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:12 pm

jamescfm wrote:
Zanz wrote:Carter was me :) he's about the only one I don't dislike.


Well, I guess I can't really argue with that...


Kennedy - Womanizer and Bay of Pigs, also a sort of throw back in my mind to FDR who I wasn't a big fan of - "Hi, I'm exorbitantly wealthy and my family has held power for generations, let's lift you up so I can be your hero."

Johnson - Vietnam, and also just a general jerk - "the Johnson treatment" just sounds gross.

Nixon - War on Drugs, and overall sleaze.

Ford - who cares about Ford? And he pardoned Nixon. In his defense he's actually probably #2 on my choices of the group.

Carter - <3. Won a Nobel Prize and very interestingly didn't also bomb the shit out of Yemen. SALT II, Camp David Accords, he beat Ted Kennedy out in the primary which was nice because I dislike the Kennedys, etc., etc., etc. Also, solar panels on the White House - what a damn hippy. Loved it.

Reagan - Reagan, Andrew Jackson, and GWB are always a struggle for me to rank 1-2-3 worst Presidents. Reagan often wins for me just because of how unrealistically he's painted by today's conservatives (see SelCru's post above). Also just generally he and his wife just feel like America's really judge-y grandparents. "Just say no," Nancy? How about you convince your husband to abandon his shitty economic policies so America's poor might have a chance to get a job and maybe they won't blow their minds away on coke.

GHWB (first President I was alive for) - Absolutely out of touch with Americans, he was a spook, and he neglected domestic issues way too much. I think he's interesting on foreign affairs, though. In all honesty he'd probably be #3 on this list if he'd just chosen not to have those damn children...

Clinton - I've been enjoying the documentary series on him that you linked elsewhere. He probably was the best politician in US history, which by itself is a mark against him. I dislike schmoozers, and at the risk of sounding a little conspiracy theory-y, check out All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace, a three part BBC documentary from a while ago that makes a convincing case for the fact that Rubin's Treasury department was really running the show during Clinton's administration. Seems like that link actually has crappy sound quality, Daily Motion has better ones but I can't get a good link. I recommend you check it out!

GWB - Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo are arguably the most embarrassing things the US has done in its full history (and that's saying something). Rumsfeld and Cheney are the most evil men I can name since Hitler/Stalin/Mao, and GWB somehow still comes off as this sort of innocent stupid character... I hate that.

Obama (first Presidential elections I could vote in... I went 3rd party) - ACA was a disaster that set real single payer back by a decade or more and helped the insurance companies. Syria, Libya, Yemen are all going to bite us in the ass for ages, Iraq and Afghanistan have gotten progressively worse, and this guy's hailed as a hero. Yuck.
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Re: The Best US President?

Postby colonelvesica » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:20 pm

I'd have picked either Ike or FDR but I'll live with what we have
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Re: The Best US President?

Postby CCP » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:36 pm

Zanz wrote:
jamescfm wrote:
Zanz wrote:Carter was me :) he's about the only one I don't dislike.


Well, I guess I can't really argue with that...


Kennedy - Womanizer and Bay of Pigs, also a sort of throw back in my mind to FDR who I wasn't a big fan of - "Hi, I'm exorbitantly wealthy and my family has held power for generations, let's lift you up so I can be your hero."

Johnson - Vietnam, and also just a general jerk - "the Johnson treatment" just sounds gross.

Nixon - War on Drugs, and overall sleaze.

Ford - who cares about Ford? And he pardoned Nixon. In his defense he's actually probably #2 on my choices of the group.

Carter - <3. Won a Nobel Prize and very interestingly didn't also bomb the shit out of Yemen. SALT II, Camp David Accords, he beat Ted Kennedy out in the primary which was nice because I dislike the Kennedys, etc., etc., etc. Also, solar panels on the White House - what a damn hippy. Loved it.

Reagan - Reagan, Andrew Jackson, and GWB are always a struggle for me to rank 1-2-3 worst Presidents. Reagan often wins for me just because of how unrealistically he's painted by today's conservatives (see SelCru's post above). Also just generally he and his wife just feel like America's really judge-y grandparents. "Just say no," Nancy? How about you convince your husband to abandon his shitty economic policies so America's poor might have a chance to get a job and maybe they won't blow their minds away on coke.

GHWB (first President I was alive for) - Absolutely out of touch with Americans, he was a spook, and he neglected domestic issues way too much. I think he's interesting on foreign affairs, though. In all honesty he'd probably be #3 on this list if he'd just chosen not to have those damn children...

Clinton - I've been enjoying the documentary series on him that you linked elsewhere. He probably was the best politician in US history, which by itself is a mark against him. I dislike schmoozers, and at the risk of sounding a little conspiracy theory-y, check out All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace, a three part BBC documentary from a while ago that makes a convincing case for the fact that Rubin's Treasury department was really running the show during Clinton's administration. Seems like that link actually has crappy sound quality, Daily Motion has better ones but I can't get a good link. I recommend you check it out!

GWB - Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo are arguably the most embarrassing things the US has done in its full history (and that's saying something). Rumsfeld and Cheney are the most evil men I can name since Hitler/Stalin/Mao, and GWB somehow still comes off as this sort of innocent stupid character... I hate that.

Obama (first Presidential elections I could vote in... I went 3rd party) - ACA was a disaster that set real single payer back by a decade or more and helped the insurance companies. Syria, Libya, Yemen are all going to bite us in the ass for ages, Iraq and Afghanistan have gotten progressively worse, and this guy's hailed as a hero. Yuck.


+1. I've also voted 3rd party since 2008. President Obama has been a disaster for African Americans -- hate crimes are through the roof and wealth has been set back a generation and all this clown can muster up is retrograde 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps' sickness like this. It is a testament to the idiocy of the US's anti-African racists and Europhiles that they never seemed to realize how much this guy is his mother's son not his father's son. President Obama is a true blue white pride patriot from stem to stern. His policies in East Africa, Haiti, Europe, and domestically tell the tale.

I don't really like any of them so I didn't vote in the poll. But as far as sheer chops and competence, Johnson was the strongest by leaps and bounds. He actually knew how to do his job (trailed by Nixon, Clinton (towards the end), and HW Bush). But he was a virulent anti-African racist, so no dice.
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Re: The Best US President?

Postby SelucianCrusader » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:48 pm

Carter betrayed the people of Iran, the people of Ethiopia, handed over Zimbabwe to Mugabe, stabbed Taiwan in the back (there's probably a few more I forgot) and is one of the reasons I can't fully agree with anti-neocons that American isolationism is always a good thing (though support of Islamist "rebels" in Libya and Syria has been a disaster). How many people in non-western countries would have lived and prospered, not to mention have lived under relatively better regimes had Reagan been president at the time instead of Carter?

I guess the Camp David Accords were a success though as Egypt signed peace with Israel, even if they contain references to "Palestine" and stuff.
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Re: The Best US President?

Postby Siggon Kristov » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:52 pm

Aquinas wrote:A tricky question to answer. I voted for Lyndon Johnson, mainly on account of the progress he made in terms of civil rights and developing the welfare state.

Both Malcolm X and MLK Jr. were disillusioned with Johnson and the Democratic Party.
Jim Crow got replaced by the War on Crime; Johnson was horrible.

And let's not forget that it's under his administration that the USA was 1 of only 3 countries to vote against a resolution to combat the glorification of Fascism.
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Re: The Best US President?

Postby jamescfm » Mon Nov 14, 2016 3:56 pm

.
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