Swedish General Election, 2018

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Which party would you vote for?

Social Democrats (S)
6
15%
Sweden Democrats (SD)
15
38%
Moderate Party (M)
4
10%
Centre Party (C)
4
10%
Left Party (V)
5
13%
Liberal Party (L)
2
5%
Green Party (MP)
2
5%
Christian Democrats (KD)
0
No votes
Feminist Initiative (F!)
0
No votes
Other
1
3%
 
Total votes : 39

Re: Swedish General Election, 2018

Postby Hrafn » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:05 am

Elf wrote:I support the monarchy, but I'd be fine with another royal house. I don't have high hopes about Victoria, sadly. In a future Nordic state, perhaps the Danish-Norwegian royal house could have our throne as well.

To be fair though, I doubt the king himself has much influence over (or even idea about) who gets a medal, those decisions are made by the Office of the Marshal of the Realm.

Of course, but he should do some basic research about the people he decorates, otherwise he is a very incompetent Head of State.
And he has refused to decorate people in the past, so it's not like his hands are completely tied by the law.

And I still don't understand why the Marshal of the Realm thought that Spectre is so fantastic.

Elf wrote:
Polites wrote:Hungary's been using anti-Soros rhetoric that borrows a lot from and is uncomfortably similar to inter-war anti-Semitic rhetoric. Don't think that on its own qualifies as anti-Semitism, but when coupled with Orban's rehabilitation of Horthy, that does not bode well for the Hungarian government's record in this matter.
What's that rehabilitation all about? Him not being as bad as the Arrow cross people?

AFAICT Horthy was similar to Mannerheim - basically a patriot who entered into an uneasy tactical alliance with Nazi Germany in order to save his country from becoming a soviet puppet state (the difference being that Horthy ultimately failed). He was also a bit chauvinistic and wanted to expand his country's borders and influence and stuff like that, like pretty much every other leader.
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Re: Swedish General Election, 2018

Postby Polites » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:33 am

Hrafn wrote:AFAICT Horthy was similar to Mannerheim - basically a patriot who entered into an uneasy tactical alliance with Nazi Germany in order to save his country from becoming a soviet puppet state (the difference being that Horthy ultimately failed). He was also a bit chauvinistic and wanted to expand his country's borders and influence and stuff like that, like pretty much every other leader.


It's more about the fact that Horthy introduced the first anti-Semitic legislation in Hungary and was in charge of the country when the deportations began, without really trying to stop them.
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Re: Swedish General Election, 2018

Postby Elf » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:42 pm

Watched the press conference announcing the new far-right party, Alternative for Sweden, who consists of the former SD youth group and their allies who were excluded from the party in 2015 on grounds of ideological deviance/ethno-nationalism etc. And wow. I didn't have a lot of confidence in these people to begin with, but I'd at least think that when you'd call to a press conference, you'd have something to think. Instead it was a magnificent circle-jerk with video clips with bombastic music to various stock picks combined with Kasselstrand holding a speech about how much he has 'sacrificed' for his beliefs... cool story bro...

No real political proposals. Well, except that they oppose integration, which is just another way of saying that you don't want immigrants to mix with native Swedes. The biggest news was imho that Kasselstrand is trying to grow a beard even though he lacks adequate genes for it. :lol:

The name. And the logo. So fucking uninspired:

Image

Not to mention the party board. They look like the governing board of some Pentecostal ministry. Except the guy furthest to the left, who looks like the twin brother of Lord Voldemort:

http://alternativforsverige.se/om-oss/

Nope, this ain't no political revolution. They want flat taxes. That's interesting, since SD has essentially become centre-right economically, one would think that these guys would move to a fiscally centre-left position, like the FN in France etc. But nope. Their wannabe-brattiness might stop them from being relevant.

There probably is a segment of the population who would support a Swedish Front National and could give such a movement a few seats... but these guys... no...
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Re: Swedish General Election, 2018

Postby Hrafn » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:11 pm

lol Biased much?

I'm casting my vote for AfS. SD is, as Kasselstrand said, tired and senile. At this point it makes no difference whether SD gets 25 or 35 %. But it would make a difference if we got another, more radical anti-immigration party in the parliament, one that is willing to actually rock the boat to get what they want.

Elf wrote:Watched the press conference announcing the new far-right party, Alternative for Sweden, who consists of the former SD youth group and their allies who were excluded from the party in 2015 on grounds of ideological deviance/ethno-nationalism etc. And wow. I didn't have a lot of confidence in these people to begin with, but I'd at least think that when you'd call to a press conference, you'd have something to think. Instead it was a magnificent circle-jerk with video clips with bombastic music to various stock picks combined with Kasselstrand holding a speech about how much he has 'sacrificed' for his beliefs... cool story bro...

Name one election campaign film that isn't bombastic (or otherwise sentimental) music to various stock images and emotional claptrap. You don't watch campaign films to learn about concrete policy proposals. To do that you need to read, which of course is to much of an exertion for the average voter. But then again, the average voter doesn't usually vote with his brain, but with his heart. That's why we have things like campaign films, logotypes, flags, etc.

Elf wrote:No real political proposals.

Actually, they have plenty:
-Scrap the Immigration Agency and set up a Repatriation Agency instead.
-Scrap the Employment Service and all subsidized make-work jobs.
-Demand that municipalities clean up their budgets before getting the municipal subsidies (Kommunala utjämningssystemet, don't know if there's a good english translation of that). Personally, I would prefer to scrap the system altogether.
-No welfare for non-citizens.
-Scrap the tax deduction on interest payments and lower capital taxes.
-Scrap press support.
-Support net neutrality and make it illegal for banks, social media companies, etc. to discriminate against people because of political opinions.
-Scrap foreign aid.
-Scrap integration policy, as you mentioned.
-Protectionist measures against meat imports that do not conform to Swedish animal welfare standards. (This is just common fucking sense. You can have all the animal welfare laws you want, but if you allow foreign animal products to flood in freely it will be completely and utterly fang-less.)
-Swexit, obviously.
-Establish a constitutional supreme court.
-Reintroduce "Tjänstemannaansvar" (don't know how to translate that).
-Remove the ability of politicians to set their own salaries.
-Slash public funding of political parties and make it easier to make donations instead.
-Make parliament commitee meatings public.
-Introduce a real preferential vote system for individual candidates and include all on a single ballot instead of the current system where each party must make and distribute it's own ballot papers.
-Reduce the number of MPs from 349 to 149.
-Introduce real life sentences and a "three strokes" principle, and remove the "discount" on repeated offences.
-Remove politically appointed lay judges (nämndemän) from the courts.
-Improve health care by lifting administrative tasks off of physicians and nurses and employing a separate category of employees for that, and also reintroducing less-educated nurse assistants to take care of simpler tasks. Scrap the county councils and move health care to the state. No free health care for non-citizens and certainly not for illegal immigrants.
-Reintroduce conscription and give more money to the military (and unlike the other parties, since they want to stop wasting money on importing the third world to Sweden, they would actually have the funding for it).
-A pragmatic, non-warmongering policy with regard to Russia.
-Order and discipline in school and no "gender theory" or other such political fluff.

Elf wrote:Well, except that they oppose integration, which is just another way of saying that you don't want immigrants to mix with native Swedes.

SD opposes integration too if I'm not mistaken. Otherwise they have become even more watered down than I thought. Integration is the idea that Swedes and immigrants should "meet halfway" as opposed to the immigrants adapting to us or GTFO. We of course have no obligation to move one inch to accomodate immigrants.

Elf wrote:Nope, this ain't no political revolution. They want flat taxes. That's interesting, since SD has essentially become centre-right economically, one would think that these guys would move to a fiscally centre-left position, like the FN in France etc. But nope. Their wannabe-brattiness might stop them from being relevant.

We have eight social democratic parties in our parliament (arguably seven social democratic parties and one communist party). A right-wing party is exactly what we need.

Elf wrote:There probably is a segment of the population who would support a Swedish Front National and could give such a movement a few seats... but these guys... no...

We'll see who laughs last ;)
I predict 3-6 %.

According to polls, the majority of SD supporters would like to see another anti-immigration party, so I would think that there is a sizeable segment who could potentially switch to AfS.

I'm looking forward to see debates between AfS and the Feminist party :lol:
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Re: Swedish General Election, 2018

Postby Elf » Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:06 pm

-Reintroduce "Tjänstemannaansvar" (don't know how to translate that).
Uh... "legal accountability of civil servants"? Or something?

Hadn't read their manifesto when I wrote that, was mostly thinking about his speech. Which was kinda underwhelming imho. Though he was going to give us some big surprise, like Ekeroth defecting to them or something lol. :lol:

I agree about flat taxes, but not as a matter of principle, but because the Swedish tax system is actually incredibly regressive, and puts the highest burden on the upper-middle class. I've read that it wouldn't make much of a difference for the state budget anyway. Ideally imho, there should be a progressive ta system that elevates poverty rather than punishing prosperity.

Not sure whenever economically right-wing policies are a good idea for a party that is going to have to rely on a lot on unruly people from the countryside who are basically welfare chauvinistic social democrats, hate the US, Israel, religion, foreigners (except thai wifes :lol: ) etc.

That said... if there is an ethnonationalist opinion of 4%, they should probably have their own representation. The SD can't accommodate everyone from immigration-sceptic liberal conservatives to hard line nationalists. Will make it easier to sit down with the centre-right too.
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Re: Swedish General Election, 2018

Postby Hrafn » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:06 am

Elf wrote:I agree about flat taxes, but not as a matter of principle, but because the Swedish tax system is actually incredibly regressive, and puts the highest burden on the upper-middle class. I've read that it wouldn't make much of a difference for the state budget anyway. Ideally imho, there should be a progressive ta system that elevates poverty rather than punishing prosperity.

The Swedish tax system is very regressive because it has high VATs (which burdens poor people more because more of their earnings go to consumption) and high income taxes which punish people trying to accumulate wealth through honest work, while getting rich on real estate is being encouraged and rewarded.

Elf wrote:Not sure whenever economically right-wing policies are a good idea for a party that is going to have to rely on a lot on unruly people from the countryside who are basically welfare chauvinistic social democrats, hate the US, Israel, religion, foreigners (except thai wifes :lol:.
Sounds more like your typical low-to-mid tier urban person. People in the countryside are usually quite right-wing economically because they are small business owners and generally have to do things on their own (most roads in Sweden are privately owned and managed, for example, but if you live in a city you might not be aware of that). They often have nothing against "blattar" because they've never met any, or at least aren't forced to be in their vicinity on a regular basis. Unless they've realized that these "blattar" are 90% of the reason why our tax burden is so damn high, that is.

Oh, right. I get it. Everything outside inner Stockholm is "the countryside" to you :lol:
That's quite funny actually, considering that Stockholm is a tiny village full of peasants in an international context.
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Re: Swedish General Election, 2018

Postby Elf » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:33 am

Yeh - in our system it's like a flat 30% (capital gains tax) for the upper class, 55% for the upper middle class, 50% for the middle class and around 30% + a lot of VAT for the working class. So it punishes hard work and study. It's hilarious when, for instance, Sanders supporters in America, present our country as incredibly progressive without any clue about facts. :mrgreen:

Haha. Actually I live in outer Stockholm, next to a forest preserve. :lol: Although I agree that most of us probably have a tendency of think of everything outside bar maybe Uppsala, Gothenburg and Malmö as "the country". I lived in Kungälv for a time and I know there's a difference between small towns where you can go to the pub, the cinema etc. and those places where youngsters hang outside Ica drinking 3.5% beers on Friday evenings (and incredibly, they're not burning any cars, despite not having a youth centre... :o).

I was mostly basing that on my experience of "friends of Sweden" on the comment sections etc. And yes - some of those live here in Stockholm too. I think any moderately intelligent person can see that with that kind of people around, 'full' internal democracy inside the SD without exclusions and centralism etc. is not going to be on the table. It'd be interesting to see how the AfS copes with that..
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Re: Swedish General Election, 2018

Postby Hrafn » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:43 am

I lived in Kungälv for a time and I know there's a difference between small towns where you can go to the pub, the cinema etc. and those places where youngsters hang outside Ica drinking 3.5% beers on Friday evenings (and incredibly, they're not burning any cars, despite not having a youth centre... :o).

Yeah I know it's weird. It's like "socio-economic factors" don't explain everything :o
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Re: Swedish General Election, 2018

Postby Elf » Fri May 04, 2018 6:59 pm

I'll probably miss Jimmie's speech tomorrow. Sorry if you had hoped to see me there Hrafn. :mrgreen: He always holds a speech around this time at the island of Långholmen, Stockholm (Stockholm is made up of small islands), which is ironically famous for a former prison where Sweden held its very last execution. :lol: It's a big public event which makes the SD look more like a PR agency than a political party, which is probably not to far from the truth for many Swedish political parties. But I'm going to a rock concert with a girl in the evening, so I'll have to conserve my energy for other adventures. ;)

And honestly. The SD election song. Absolutely terrible. Sounds like "Junior Eurovision Song Contest" or something. Last election, the party had a song that was composed and sung by dear Miss Bieler. :( (who was also a member of the jury that chose it to become the party's official song... but honestly, that kind of thing is kind of the SD's special charm).

But I guess this is more in line with what p̶e̶a̶s̶a̶n̶t̶s̶ people in the rest of the country listens to. Ullared, here we go. :lol:
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Re: Swedish General Election, 2018

Postby Hrafn » Sat May 05, 2018 12:50 am

Jimmie may be a good man, but I'm not travelling 1200 kilometers to hear the guy talk! Youtube is a gift :lol:

And when are you going to ask miss Bieler out?

Also, we peasants don't listen to that overproduced crap. We bang rocks together and howl.
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