Particracy Forum

This is the big issue pro-EU liberals like myself are getting very agitated about at the moment . Please offer your views and vote in the poll.

.

I think Brexit was a terrible decision that will most likely have mostly negative effects on Britain, a decision that was taken after a very close referendum and after a particularly mendacious campaign (on both sides).

That being said, a second referendum (or a "People's Vote" for that matter) would be a very bad idea. Firstly, it is very likely the outcome would be the same, judging by opinion polls. Secondly, millions of Britons voted in the referendum for the first time in their lives (compared to turnout in general elections), and to effectively abolish their vote cause they made the "wrong" decision would send a big "fuck you" to those voters, reinforcing the whole (not entirely unjustified) view of Europe as an elite club of Eurocrats that only care about popular opinion when it goes their way (see how Ireland was made to vote twice for Lisbon when they voted "incorrectly" the first time). Thirdly, while the referendum itself and its outcome is not in Britain's best interests, it represented genuine frustrations of Britons who feel that Parliament (and Brussels) don't represent their interests. Although the referendum was bad for Britain, a second referendum would be even worse. It would remove the modicum of confidence many Britons still have in the democratic process and it will just confirm that, no matter what they do or how they vote, London will have its way.

I do agree that referenda are not a good tool for governance, but that is because their terms and outcomes are determined by those that initiate them. Because of that they are not as democratic as people make them out to be.

I agree with Polites, that is why you shouldn't label referendums as the "maximum expression of democracy". We elect governments for something, and this was one of those cases. The first referendum was a bad idea, a second referendum would be even worse. Although it really hurts me because of the negative consequences that Brexit will have, in the long term a second referendum can actually increase the gaps between the EU and the United Kingdom. Perhaps, within a few years, the United Kingdom will once again request accession, I do not know, and for the moment it seems unlikely, but I would see it as a better decision than holding a second referendum.

Brexit is good for the British people and it should be approved pronto.

This meme was made by Anti-Globalist Gang.

.

Any thoughts on where the UK is heading at the moment?

Two Brexit Secetaries have now resigned, the future of Theresa May and the government is in doubt...

My thoughts are GOK.

(God Only Knows)

TPPDJT wrote:Brexit is good for the British people and it should be approved pronto.

This meme was made by Anti-Globalist Gang.

I have to respond to this, because quite frankly, this concept is hilarious. The dream of a United Europe has been a right-wing fantasy for centuries; from Augustus to Hitler. It's ironic now that the right-wing is hating the European Union when Hitler had planned for a "United States of Europe" following the end of World War II; eventually not backing the idea for a variety of reasons mostly because Ribbentrop had fallen out of favor and the turning tides of war. Macron's call for a "European Army" was largely the purpose behind the Waffen-SS accepting foreign recruits and volunteers into the Waffen-SS. Not to mention Himmler supporting recruitment of foreign fighters into the Waffen-SS because he himself believed in the establishment of a "Pan-European Army" (albeit more Germanic).

Napoleon (and previous French Kings), the German Kaiser's, Austria-Hungarian Kaiser and Kings, all wanted a United States of Europe or some form of European Federation and now that the European Union has basically become that dream...it's wrong? That's an incredible change of ideology for the right-wing in Europe which has always, in some form, sponsored a united European continent.

.

jamescfm wrote:

Auditorii wrote:United States of Europe or some form of European Federation and now that the European Union has basically become that dream...it's wrong? That's an incredible change of ideology for the right-wing in Europe which has always, in some form, sponsored a united European continent.

I think the fundamental reason why the right will never fully support a united Europe is because the entire foundation of their ideology is division.

I’m not saying I agree; I’m not saying I disagree. As someone whose socially progressive, economically liberal and has a strong love for his country, and truth be told I have zero clue how to politically identify, I can’t agree but on the other end I agree because these modern day “right-wingers” are just nut jobs.