Particracy Forum

alaskancrabpuffs21 wrote:I am transferring Princess Lilian of the House of Rothengren-Ludwig to the control of BananaZebra (Forum name)/Hexaus (Discord) for her to become the next Queen of Kizenia and New Endralon

Noted on behalf of the Role-Play Committee.

Want to raise this concern that luthorian3059 who is currently playing as CDU (MC) is violating the monarchy agreement. It was decided that we both will make decisions together and control the Monarchy together. He's trying to Rp and decide for the monarchy on his own which is unacceptable. This is the law
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=684941

Ian Bake wrote:Want to raise this concern that luthorian3059 who is currently playing as CDU (MC) is violating the monarchy agreement. It was decided that we both will make decisions together and control the Monarchy together. He's trying to Rp and decide for the monarchy on his own which is unacceptable. This is the law
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=684941

The Role-Play Committee will investigate this and get back to you.

Ian Bake wrote:Want to raise this concern that luthorian3059 who is currently playing as CDU (MC) is violating the monarchy agreement. It was decided that we both will make decisions together and control the Monarchy together. He's trying to Rp and decide for the monarchy on his own which is unacceptable. This is the law
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=684941

Based on the bill this is correct. You are both co-controllers of what is currently the Luthorian monarchy. Decisions must be made by both of you and must be in agreeance. However, significant RP has been done since the passage of this bill. This RP will not be disregarded or retconned in anyway. Any future RP must be discussed and communicated.

Luis1p wrote:

Ian Bake wrote:Want to raise this concern that luthorian3059 who is currently playing as CDU (MC) is violating the monarchy agreement. It was decided that we both will make decisions together and control the Monarchy together. He's trying to Rp and decide for the monarchy on his own which is unacceptable. This is the law
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=684941

Based on the bill this is correct. You are both co-controllers of what is currently the Luthorian monarchy. Decisions must be made by both of you and must be in agreeance. However, significant RP has been done since the passage of this bill. This RP will not be disregarded or retconned in anyway. Any future RP must be discussed and communicated.

I firmly disagree with your ruling and ask you to reconsider in light of a bit of context that is obviously missing here.

First, the context is missing. There were OOC and IC disagreements which caused royal houses to be switched, from OV-Armstead of Lig and Carrington of LuthoriFirst.

Secondly, as per the game rules a player cannot take ownership of the House from another, Lig nor Vesica who control the OV’s never authorised or shared control of the Imperial House of Orange-Villayn with LuthoriFirst, the agreement made, which you can find in the transfer of player control is the creation of the House of Sewallston which ownership is sharedly owned by the two. The bill referencing it is very vague but in this context must be understood as such that the control of the monarchy (House of Sewalston) is given to these two players.

Thirdly, LuthoriFirst went inactive after a time, after that the Imperial House and Dynasty was replaced back to the House Lig controlls, the OV-A’s. So thus the shared ownership is ended. I am firmly infavour of giving LuthoriFirst all control back of the Caringtons, which are his House.

Fourth, ‘’the monarchy’’ would imply that two players decide on the monarchy regardless of which House sits the throne and who controls said house. That would give an unfair monopoly to these two players, which I firmly object.

This ruling is based on half information and must be reconsidered.

Just for information the Monarchy of Luthori is co controlled by me & the ICU which happened after an agreement. The latter is now desperate to seek complete control & completely disregard the rules we set. Each RP of Monarchy needs to be approved by the co-controllers which he is consistently violating. The Sewallston house is created after merger of Carington & Orange Villayn. I controlled the Carington house & before merger King-Emperor Edward of Carington House was ruling. After an agreement we decided to create a new house i.e. "Sewallston". I plan to continue the usage as such.

As a suitable compromise, I would propose that the House of Orange-Villayn-Armstead, the current ruling House, be recognised as being owned by Vesica and that we will find a suitable compromise to restore the Noble House of Sewallston as Senior nobles in the realm with a prominent position in the Senate to LuthoriFirst.

Autokrator15 wrote:

Luis1p wrote:

Ian Bake wrote:Want to raise this concern that luthorian3059 who is currently playing as CDU (MC) is violating the monarchy agreement. It was decided that we both will make decisions together and control the Monarchy together. He's trying to Rp and decide for the monarchy on his own which is unacceptable. This is the law
http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=684941

Based on the bill this is correct. You are both co-controllers of what is currently the Luthorian monarchy. Decisions must be made by both of you and must be in agreeance. However, significant RP has been done since the passage of this bill. This RP will not be disregarded or retconned in anyway. Any future RP must be discussed and communicated.

I firmly disagree with your ruling and ask you to reconsider in light of a bit of context that is obviously missing here.

First, the context is missing. There were OOC and IC disagreements which caused royal houses to be switched, from OV-Armstead of Lig and Carrington of LuthoriFirst.

Secondly, as per the game rules a player cannot take ownership of the House from another, Lig nor Vesica who control the OV’s never authorised or shared control of the Imperial House of Orange-Villayn with LuthoriFirst, the agreement made, which you can find in the transfer of player control is the creation of the House of Sewallston which ownership is sharedly owned by the two. The bill referencing it is very vague but in this context must be understood as such that the control of the monarchy (House of Sewalston) is given to these two players.

Thirdly, LuthoriFirst went inactive after a time, after that the Imperial House and Dynasty was replaced back to the House Lig controlls, the OV-A’s. So thus the shared ownership is ended. I am firmly infavour of giving LuthoriFirst all control back of the Caringtons, which are his House.

Fourth, ‘’the monarchy’’ would imply that two players decide on the monarchy regardless of which House sits the throne and who controls said house. That would give an unfair monopoly to these two players, which I firmly object.

This ruling is based on half information and must be reconsidered.

Just for information the Monarchy of Luthori is co controlled by me & the ICU which happened after an agreement. The latter is now desperate to seek complete control & completely disregard the rules we set. Each RP of Monarchy needs to be approved by the co-controllers which he is consistently violating. The Sewallston house is created after merger of Carington & Orange Villayn. I controlled the Carington house & before merger King-Emperor Edward of Carington House was ruling. After an agreement we decided to create a new house i.e. "Sewallston". I plan to continue the usage as such.

As a suitable compromise, I would propose that the House of Orange-Villayn-Armstead, the current ruling House, be recognised as being owned by Vesica and that we will find a suitable compromise to restore the Noble House of Sewallston as Senior nobles in the realm with a prominent position in the Senate to LuthoriFirst.

We'll take a look and reconsider.

Unfortunate how brad is trying to influence the decision. How can member of RPC do that? Very unfortunate. The decision already made and delivered by Moderation should be respected and I consider it final.

Ian Bake wrote:Unfortunate how brad is trying to influence the decision. How can member of RPC do that? Very unfortunate. The decision already made and delivered by Moderation should be respected and I consider it final.

The decision was made by the RPC, not moderation. It is still subject to change. I would advise you to not accuse anyone of influencing anything.

Bradley reached out to me with more information I missed on the situation and I am looking to reconsider based on what is being told to me. I ask for your patience while we sort things out.

Ian Bake wrote:Unfortunate how brad is trying to influence the decision. How can member of RPC do that? Very unfortunate. The decision already made and delivered by Moderation should be respected and I consider it final.

How my involvement looks
I wish to state that it I did not take part in the deliberation on this subject and that I regret the appearance this all has got through my actions. It was my intention as an involved and informed player in Luthori to provide extra information when I learned of this whole case (had a rather busy weekend so I didnt look). This seems like a divide in the RPC, which I find unfortunate and was not at all my intention. My intention was to keep to my integrity and keep out of it and act and involve myself as a fellow player of this game, not as a member of the RPC. I appologise to all members of the RPC and this community, this doesnt win the beauty contest but I did as I thought was right and had no malice nor ill will in mind.

A compromise to find a suitable solution
To be transparant, I have proposed the following compromise to all sides involved and even gave it as an option to the RPC to consider:

It is ever my view that Ian Bake has no rights to control the Orange-Villayn-Armsteads. Also I think this whole thing comes from the false belief that he can control the institution of the monarchy rather than the House that sits on the throne. He thinks this based on an old RP law which passed a bit before he became inactive after 250 IG years. He is the creator of the House of Carrington who married the House of Orange-Villayn-Armstead (controlled by Vesica and Lig) to solve an unfortunate OOC conflict from more than a year ago. This union would create a new House, the House of Sewallston. After he left shortly after this marriage and creation, Lig Rp'd that the children of Mary VI OVA would be OVA's not Sewallston. However this would deprive Ian Bake of any characters of the Sewallston line, which I think is as unfair as giving him control over charachters he has had no hand in for over 250+ IG years. Thus I propose a compromise to make it so that the current monarch is from a different OVA line so that the decendents of Mary IV and Edward III are Sewallstons under the control of Ian, but not sit the throne.

My compromise summerized
So my compromise I propose is this:

- Lig and Vesica remain in control of the House of Orange-Villayn-Armstead and all its members and thus also the current Emperor and his heirs;
- Lig gives full control of the House of Sewallston and all its possible decendents from the line of Mary IV to Ian Bake who gains control of them and keeps any possible members of the House of Carrington (the parent house).
- The RP story and family tree is retconned to make the current Emperor and his family not decendents of Mary IV or any of the Sewallstons/Carringtons but make him a decendent of Mary IV's youngest Uncle Harry. In Luthorian history, Mary IV OVA married Andrew III (character of LuthoriFirst) their son ascended the throne (with LuthoriFirst already long inactive, but thats beside the point) he was assasinated in RP by a republican terrorist.
His son Maximillian VI took the throne. We can retcon that Maximillian VI was not the son of Charles VI but a decendend of Mary IV's youngest uncle. That line had no relations to the Carringtons/Sewallstons.
- The House of Sewallston/Carrington will become prominent senior nobles, we will give them a Grand Duchy, and two duchies (Duke of Carrington, Duke of Sewallston) and a hereditary peerage in the Imperial Senate. Making Ian Bake's noble family one of the most powerfull noble families in the realm. He can allocate those titles as he pleases to his controlled families.

The retcon visualised:



Every player who wishes it can get a noble with an important title to get more RP from all involved, not just the few
We recently passed a bill with all noble titles of regional nobility corrosponding to geograpgical locations, as discussed it is my plan to divide them up fairly between all players, except ofcourse the controller of the Imperial Family (Lig) as he got them and some hereditary titles. This gives everyone an equal involvement in the nobility, with great RP oppertunity even in politics. I hope to work with all of them to get this done, I believe this can bring great new RP to Luthori. Despite us having a well developed monarchial RP we lack strong noble RP and I believe Ian Bake and others can bring great RP to that. I want everyone involved and none left excluded.

I think this is very fair, and I leave it to the RPC to decide.

For transparency, Bradley did acknowledge his error in the method he communicated his thoughts, making the RPC look divided and confusing the situation.
I want to thank Bradley for communicating details of this request and apologizing for the confusion this may have caused.

The Roleplay Committee, backed by administration, is going forward with the compromised retcon explained by Bradley. IanBake will keep control of the Houses of Sewallston and Carrington and hold prominent positions in Luthorian RP. Controlling house of the Luthorian monarchy remains in the control of Vesica/Lig. This compromise remains in the best interests of all players.

To reiterate, Brad did not influence any decision using the RPC. Bradley gave the RPC more information on the situation, as a Luthorian player, after our original decision and we adjusted the result. The roleplay in this situation backs up the compromise and we believe it to be the best outcome for all.