Requests: Cultural Protocols - CPs [M]

[Aquinas]

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=471320

In approximately 6 minutes, CPs with the Jelbaniens back in at 4% will be passed in Jelbania.

Accepted.

[Govenor12]

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=471618

I hereby formally request the consent of the moderation for the new cultural protocols.

[Reddy]

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=471618

I hereby formally request the consent of the moderation for the new cultural protocols.

The update for Beiteynu count as an affirmation. As per the rules, we wait at least 48 hours until it can be accepted.

[Zanz]

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=471618

I hereby formally request the consent of the moderation for the new cultural protocols.

The update for Beiteynu count as an affirmation. As per the rules, we wait at least 48 hours until it can be accepted.

I don't mean to be nitpicky, but in the interest of consistency across protocols I wish this protocol had a guide to character naming (as most protocols have now been required to have). I also would point out that, if edits are made to include those links, it also would be worthwhile to give the full protocol a read through as a whole. It appears this was copy pasted and then only the numbers were changed, but that has meant that there are statements like "numbers are rounded to the nearest whole" right next to 1.5%, and other inconsistencies. I care less about that, but for the sake of thoroughness I figured I'd point it out.

[Govenor12]

but in the interest of consistency across protocols I wish this protocol had a guide to character naming (as most protocols have now been required to have)

As Beiteynu is a jewish and israel-orientated nation and since a name generator link is provided this point is highly questionable. Jews are not definable by their names since they come from many different nations and to imply such a thing is indeed going into the anti-jewish corner.

also would be worthwhile to give the full protocol a read through as a whole.

I do not think that this would be make things easier for new players. Besides, that is niot required by the rules.

t appears this was copy pasted and then only the numbers were changed, but that has meant that there are statements like "numbers are rounded to the nearest whole" right next to 1.5%, and other inconsistencies. I care less about that, but for the sake of thoroughness I figured I'd point it out

Senseless point. 1.5 could also be interpreted as the next whole since in census there are normally several digits after the point. Moreover, the changes proposed are modest and why should everything change. Continuity is also an important aspect of protocols.

[Reddy]

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=471618

I hereby formally request the consent of the moderation for the new cultural protocols.

The update for Beiteynu count as an affirmation. As per the rules, we wait at least 48 hours until it can be accepted.

I don't mean to be nitpicky, but in the interest of consistency across protocols I wish this protocol had a guide to character naming (as most protocols have now been required to have). I also would point out that, if edits are made to include those links, it also would be worthwhile to give the full protocol a read through as a whole. It appears this was copy pasted and then only the numbers were changed, but that has meant that there are statements like "numbers are rounded to the nearest whole" right next to 1.5%, and other inconsistencies. I care less about that, but for the sake of thoroughness I figured I'd point it out.

No, not nitpicky at all. This is what these 48 hours are for. Your comments will be taken into consideration in deciding whether to approve of the update. I would point out though there's a 'Character Naming' and a 'Translations' section (second set of links from the top) As for the "numbers are rounded to the nearest whole" bits, I missed those and will notify the players about it.

I like the idea on developing some kind of universal format for CPs for consistency's sake. Some of the sub-sections in section 16 of the Game Rules were added with the intention to nudge players towards a more uniform CP format.

[Reddy]

t appears this was copy pasted and then only the numbers were changed, but that has meant that there are statements like "numbers are rounded to the nearest whole" right next to 1.5%, and other inconsistencies. I care less about that, but for the sake of thoroughness I figured I'd point it out

Senseless point. 1.5 could also be interpreted as the next whole since in census there are normally several digits after the point. Moreover, the changes proposed are modest and why should everything change. Continuity is also an important aspect of protocols.

Sorry, but Zanz's right here, Governor12. 1.5% or 0.5% cannot be considered a 'whole number' in any sense of the word. Perhaps you meant 'next/second significant number' rather than 'next whole number'?

[Zanz]

but in the interest of consistency across protocols I wish this protocol had a guide to character naming (as most protocols have now been required to have)

As Beiteynu is a jewish and israel-orientated nation and since a name generator link is provided this point is highly questionable. Jews are not definable by their names since they come from many different nations and to imply such a thing is indeed going into the anti-jewish corner.

First of all, yikes - the anti-Semitic card. Lol. Anyway, yes, I didn't see you'd included a name generator link, which somewhat assuages my concerns, but not entirely. The real root of my concern is that someone could relatively easily say "well lots of Jews live in America, beiteynu is Jewish, let's use American names" and we end up with an American English nation, or at least an argument for one. The ideal, in my mind, would be similar to what I just used in Jelbania, where I list naming recommendations for each ethnicity.

also would be worthwhile to give the full protocol a read through as a whole.

I do not think that this would be make things easier for new players. Besides, that is niot required by the rules.

Sure, it's not required, but I was just suggesting some editing if you were going to be updating to include the naming links, anyway. I don't care too much on this point, it just was that I saw quite a few that could be ironed out with a good read through.

Anyway, whatever. Moderation, consider a uniform format - I think it'd definitely help to have cross nation consistency. I didn't mean to come off as attacking Beiteynu specifically, but I don't have time to keep up this fight, I've got too many Jews to go hate IRL

[Govenor12]

Sorry, but Zanz's right here, Governor12. 1.5% or 0.5% cannot be considered a 'whole number' in any sense of the word. Perhaps you meant 'next/second significant number' rather than 'next whole number'?

This part of the CP was taken over from the cp before. Anyway, now that is considered flawed, does it make sense to continue with the process? Is there a confirmation of the rp under certain conditions?

In addtion, i take your point Zanz. However, as I already pointed out: "Jewish" name are considered to come from many backgrounds. This could be add to the CP.

Edited: Please, everyone. Input and citizism is welcome.

[Aquinas]

A few points to make.

First of all, apologies in advance to Govenor12, because I appreciate you might be feeling a bit picked on already, and parts of what I am going to say might make you feel that even more so! Please don't any interpret any of this as a lecture directed personally at you: this is being directed generally - to every player in the game.

This is actually an issue that's been ongoing ever since Cultural Protocols were introduced, and which I've been grappling with ever since I became a Moderator. By this, I mean the challenge of making sure Cultural Protocols are easy-peasy to read and understand, especially for new players, who (in addition to sometimes having rather short attention spans!) are not as familiar with in-game concepts as those of us who are more experienced.

There have been problems with Cultural Protocols being poorly presented, too confusing, including too much blurb and not containing proper descriptions/real-life equivalents for all of the in-game categories/terms introduced. Fortunately, the worst ones have now been weeded out, but there is still more we can do to improve things.

To be fair to Govenor12, the Cultural Protocol bill he has just submitted is a long, long, long way from being the most problematic Culturally Protocol bill I've had to look at.

We all need to appreciate that the main purpose of a Cultural Protocol bill is to communicate the cultural character of a nation to players in as simple a way as possible. It is not generally a good idea, for example, to introduce complex concepts or to include multiple links to laws that have been passed. Nor is it advisable to include text justifying changes proposed to the Cultural Protocol; the best place for doing that is here, on this thread.

In terms of the Game Rules, there are these requirements for how Cultural Protocol bills should be presented:

16.3.1 The Cultural Protocol bill should be presented in such a way that a new player could glance at it and very quickly be able to identify the key demographic data. Cultural Protocol bills should be short and simple. They should not include an excessive amount of text and extraneous information.

16.4 Cultural Protocol updates must contain a percentage breakdown of the cultural and religious demographics. These percentage breakdowns must add up to exactly 100, meaning that no overlaps are allowed. A maximum of 5 percentage points may be allocated to an unspecified "Other" category. The linguistic demographics, if not directly provided, will be assumed to be based on a reasonable interpretation of the cultural demographics.

16.6 Cultural Protocol bills must provide descriptions of the cultures, languages and religions which would be easy for an unfamiliar player to understand (eg. "Dundorfian = German"). Where appropriate, they should also provide guidance to players on where to find help with translations and character names. This might include, for example, links to Google Translate, Behind the Name's Random Name Generator and Fantasy Name Generators.

It is recommended to include links to the Game Rules and Cultural Protocols Index, although doing this is not a requirement under the rules.

Where convenient, it is helpful to include descriptions/real-life equivalents of the cultural, religious and linguistic categories in brackets. eg. "Yeudism (Judaism)".

If you want to include lots of descriptive text in a Cultural Protocol, it is not a bad idea to put that at the bottom rather than at the top, so the first thing a player sees is the key demographic data - which is the core of what a Cultural Protocol is about. Consider providing links to information elsewhere (eg. in descriptive OOC bills or wikia articles) as opposed to flooding the Cultural Protocol bill with text.

When updating a Cultural Protocol, it is best to read through the whole of the Cultural Protocol carefully and then make decisions about what to keep/remove/change, rather than uncritically cutting and pasting large sections of it. Do not be afraid to amend the blurb if it now looks unnecessary or confusing.

Govenor12, at least In my judgement, the presentational issues with the Cultural Protocol update you submitted are not actually so bad it deserves to be rejected simply for that reason. But frankly, I'd really, really appreciate it if you could pass and submit a more polished-up version.

Below I've drawn up a suggested template of how you could present your Cultural Protocol update. If you want to add further text, links etc. then I suggest doing that at the bottom.

Code: Select all

Beiteynu is a nation with a strong Yeudish (Jewish) theme. Generally, most characters should have Jewish names and party names should be in English or Hebrew.


Culture:

Yeudis (Jews) – 82.5%
Beta Yishalem (Black Jews) – 4%
Jelbics (Central Asians/Eurasian Steppe Peoples) – 2%
-- Pnteks (Pnték-speaking Jelbics with hints of Armenian traditions) – 1.5%
-- Brmeks (Brmék-speaking Jelbics, with Semitic and Persian influences) – 0.5%
Luthorians (English) – 4%
Majatrans (Arabs) – 3%
Selucians (Latin-speaking Romans) – 2%
Arev Mardiks (Armenians) – 0.5%
Kathurans (Assyrians/Syriacs/Arameans/Chaldeans) – 0.5%
Other – 1.5%

Religion:

Yeudism (Judaism) – 76.5%
Hosianism (Christianity) – 16%
- Apostolic Church of the East (Patriarchal Church Eastern Rite) – 5%
- Hobrazian Orthodox Church – 3% (Armenian Rite)
- Barmenian Apostolic Church – 2% (Eastern Rite)
- Holy Luthori Church (Anglican) – 2%
- Aurorian Patriarchal Church (Catholic) – 2%
- Oseyim (Ebionite) - 1%
- Other – 1%
Ahmadism (Islam) – 2%
- Israism (Sunni) 1.5%
- Abadism (Shi'ite) – 0.5%
Shultzism (liberal fusion of Ahmadism, Hosianism & Yeudism) – 1.5%
Other/none – 4%

Primary language:

Yeudi (Hebrew) - 84%
Luthori (English) - 5%
Pntek/Brmek (conlang) 6%
Selucian (Latin) - 2%
Majatran (Arabic) - 2%
Other - 1%

Percent of population who speak this language:

Yeudi (Hebrew) - 97%
Luthori (English) - 40%
Pntek/Brmek (conlang) - 6%
Canrillaise (French) - 9%
Selucian (Latin) - 3%
Majatran (Arab) - 4%
Other - 5%

Character naming:

http://fantasynamegenerators.com/#realNames
http://www.behindthename.com/random/
Jelbic names: http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=396321

Language translation:
https://translate.google.co.uk/
Language Assistance Requests: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6132

Game Rules: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6363
Cultural Protocols Index: http://forum.particracy.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6365

If anyone has suggestions to improve on that, don't hesitate to say so.

One final point,

"Jewish" name are considered to come from many backgrounds. This could be add to the CP

You are, of course, absolutely right; a Jewish person could have a name that does not sound obviously Jewish, like Fred Bloggs or Margaret Smith or whatever. The thing is, for the purposes of a game like Particracy where we are looking at lists of Cabinet Ministers etc., the cultural background of character names is very important when it comes to communicating what the general cultural characteristics of a nation are. A requirement under section 6.4 of the rules is:

Whilst a few character names may be permitted to come from small cultural minorities, the broad spread of a party's character names should be plausibly realistic. Exceptions to this will only be granted at Moderation's discretion and where a very strong case has been presented.

So basically, in a nation like Beiteynu with the Cultural Protocol you have just proposed, there would be no problem with having some character names which are not obviously Jewish, but if a player used too many character names like that, then that would be likely to come under scrutiny.