Requests: Cultural Protocols - CPs [M]

[colonelvesica]

Consider this the beginning of a 48 Hour Review period of your proposed changes.

[Augustus Germanus]

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill. ... lid=622393

Thanks in advance!

[Auditorii]

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=622393

Thanks in advance!

Swedish already exists in Kazulia and the wider context of Particracy as Befaskars unless I missed something, I don't see any connection to Kivonian's and the Befaskars via RP or any sort of RP to show why they would be there. Can you explain that?

[Augustus Germanus]

http://classic.particracy.net/viewbill.php?billid=622393

Thanks in advance!

Swedish already exists in Kazulia and the wider context of Particracy as Befaskars unless I missed something, I don't see any connection to Kivonian's and the Befaskars via RP or any sort of RP to show why they would be there. Can you explain that?

When making the new cultural protocols for Davostan I did not take to account that Swedish already existed in Kazulia, the other player in Davostan told me this fact when I presented the first draft of the new protocols, well then I had to make this realistic of course, so I made changes which sums up the current one. The Kivonians as a ethnic group has existed "officially" for over a 100 game years (since the approval of the first cultural protocols), so to make an RP article or something similar to justify this wouldn't make sense, unless one makes an article which explains that it was discovered by historians that the Befäskars and the Davostanis met sometime in history explaining their split. But, let me add this, the Skrigeres is as large a minority groups as the Befäskars in Kazulia and who also happens to be danish. So compared to the original protocols making the Davostanis danish, which was approved by the Moderation without the fact to consider the Skrigeres, I could ask for the approval of my first draft of the new protocols, which has no explanation whatsoever why the Kivonians speak Swedish and on the same terms of the original be approved. Instead I made things more realistic, and sure, I could add an article to summarize the RP but then it would be as I explained, it would have to be that historians and others discovered in ancient records or something that the Befäskars traveled or migrated to Davostan, influenced the people, which led to their split. Or perhaps another RP solution could be made, but we have to remember the first in-game state known as Kivonia was created in 4596.

Looking away from the Befäskars for a minute, the RP is realistic, the Danish and Swedish languages is extremely similar, so a split where the Kivonians (not really Kivonians at that point) develops their own dialect of the Davostani danish, but which grows into their own language but still you can constantly see the similarities between the Davostani and Kivonian. Anyways, I am eagerly waiting for your reply.

[jamescfm]

Don't want to directly intervene in this discussion but I would like to point out that in the past, I did some work on trying to explain the spread of the "East Dundorfic" (North Germanic) languages. At the time, Davostan had no cultural protocol at all so it wasn't factored in but I just thought I'd share the resource.

[Augustus Germanus]

Thank you so much, I think this map helps the RP in this case very much:



It could be so that some of the people who became the Befäskars in Kazulia stayed in Davostan and became the Kivonians, based of this map, that would make much more sense and help to support this when it comes to the RP.

[jamescfm]

A few follow-up queries to my previous one about Narikaton and Darnussia. The bill that is now linked to on the Cultural Protocol Index for the country is a very old bill which is certainly not the current cultural protocol for Narikaton and Darnussia. I have played in the country a couple of times during my time in the game and it has always been culturally open, this bill comes from before I even played the game so it's not possible that this cultural protocol is still active.

The Cultural Protocol Index seems to have a wider problem with linking to the correct cultural protocols. The convention has always been to link to the cultural protocol bill, as it was passed, not to the cultural protocol bill that is available in the debate section, the reason being that the latter can be easily edited by the player who posted the bill. I have not checked the entire index but to give you some examples: Aloria, Dorvik, Badara, Beiteynu, Barmenistan, Cildania and Deltaria.

In all of these cases, the bill linked to has not been passed. For some it might have simply been an administrative error, although it seems more likely that a Moderator (potentially a previous one) was consistently not linking to the correct bills. The issue might seem trivial but I do not believe it is so, the case of Narikaton and Darnussia is symbolic. It seems that Moderation had been enforcing a cultural protocol that was never approved and is now enforcing one that has long-since been repealed.

Determining whether this is the case is further complicated by the fact that the "end of cultural era consultations" seem to have been removed from the public section of the forum. Perhaps Moderation could take a look at restoring these, the May 2016 one is still available but neither the September 2016 or the January 2017 ones are anywhere to be found (at least that I have been able to see). Despite being outdated, they are a useful public record for cases like this.

Let me just note before I conclude that this may well be an inherited problem for the current Moderation team. Obviously there has been an incredible rate of turnover to the Moderator position since the beginning of 2017 and it may simply be that this has led to disorganisation of this kind. Nonetheless, the Cultural Protocols Index is an important part of the game and its crucial that it is accurate.

[Auditorii]

I can speak for the others that you mentioned, those are passed bills that are in the "Bills under debate" section and many of them include a link to the bill being passed and some include where Moderation approved of the Cultural Protocol. That is why they are there and I was the one who put them there since it is more information. The issue with the dedicated Cultural Protocols list is the fact that the list was hardly ever updated, finding the approval of the bills in the forums sometimes is impossible and some CPs have not been updated in a significant amount of time or were not required to get permissions under different rule sets.

I went through many nations legislative history's and found the last CP passed that I could tie to some form of approval by Moderation. In the future as CPs are approved we'll do our best to update the list and ensure that the "proper" links are linked but I cannot make a promise that everything will be 100%.

[jamescfm]

I appreciate that much of the problem here is a combination of frequent rule changes (particularly in the area of cultural protocols) over the past few years and the disorganisation of previous Moderation teams and I recognise that the current team is trying to deal with both of these problems. Nonetheless, I do think it is important that the Index links specifically to the passed bill in all cases. Ultimately this is the bill that Moderation should be enforcing and it is what is most relevant to players in the country when ensuring that they are in line with the demographics of their country.

On the second part of your post, I am a little bit confused. The implication seems to be that in the case of Narikaton and Darnussia, you linked to a cultural protocol that had subsequently been repealed and retroactively brought it into effect. If this is the case then it seems very unorthodox but perhaps I've misunderstood you on that point.

I don't want to appear too radical but the position of the Index at the moment seems pretty unworkable to me. I think it might be necessary to "purge" many of these countries of their cultural protocols, or else require players to pass updates/affirmations in order to keep them in place. At present, the Index does not seem to be serving its purpose.

[Auditorii]

I am not in support of a purge of the index but I do agree that something should be done to affirm the current protocols in some nations. The "Cultural Eras" provided some decent mechanic to update them but I believe that it became an administrative burden on former Moderations and given the state of the game and the already administrative burden on Moderation, I think it is fair to say that we'll avoid that for now. I'll continue to research and update CPs that I find.

On the N&D issue if you can find the last approved CP and send it to me that would be great.