The Behaviour of the Eastern European Countries in the EU

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The Behaviour of the Eastern European Countries in the EU

Postby Hrafn » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:32 pm

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... -trotsa-eu

I'm a bit perplexed about the behaviour of the eastern countries in the EU. While I admire that Hungary (among others) are saying no to multiculturalism and mass immigration, I am troubled by the way some countries in the EU, perhaps especially Poland, are behaving. It is well known that the Eastern European countries (and to a lesser extent the Southern European countries) are net receivers of EU subsidies, i.e. they get more money in various subsidies than they pay into the EU project, than say Sweden, which is the biggest net contributor to the whole thing. Yet, they behave as petulant teenagers, always refusing to accept EU directives. I'm quite frankly tired of seeing my well-earned Crowns going to a bunch of ungrateful babies.

What irritates me about this whole thing is that people seem to think that the EU somehow is an answer to the problem of environmental destruction. "Pollution knows no national boundaris" they say, and therefor we need to override national sovererignty. Yet, the very countries that are the net receivers of the EU project, are refusing to take their responsibility, like a bunch of spoiled brats!

I'm sceptic about the whole idea of the EU, but if we're going to have it, let's at least throw out these ungrateful parasites!
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Re: The Behaviour of the Eastern European Countries in the EU

Postby TPPDJT » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:38 pm

This would easily be solved if the EU was abolished.
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Re: The Behaviour of the Eastern European Countries in the EU

Postby Hrafn » Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:42 pm

TPPDJT wrote:This would easily be solved if the EU was abolished.

I agree. While theoretically the EU could do a lot of good, i.e. in environmental protection, its track record so far is the opposite of satisfactory. Just get rid of the whole stupid thing! Nobody is buying their bullshit.
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Re: The Behaviour of the Eastern European Countries in the EU

Postby Arapaima13 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:36 pm

Hrafn wrote:It is well known that the Eastern European countries (and to a lesser extent the Southern European countries) are net receivers of EU subsidies, i.e. they get more money in various subsidies than they pay into the EU project, than say Sweden, which is the biggest net contributor to the whole thing.


Whilst I agree the EU is flawed let's at least get our facts right. Sweden is not the largest net contributor. That is Germany, followed by the UK. Sweden is though, the second largest contributor in terms of net euros contributed per one citizen (net contribution per capita), following the Netherlands, and just in front of the UK. However you are right about Eastern European nations having large net euros received per capita, with the most money received per person (excluding Luxembourg, because of EU offices being located there) is Slovakia, followed by the Czech Republic, followed by Hungary. In terms of who receives the most in cash out of the net receivers (some net contributors receive more), that is Poland, and Spain. So interestingly Spain is up their, even though it isn't an eastern European nation. (Information from UK Parliamentary Briefing Paper on the EU Budget by Matthew Keep)

I think that the EU has been beneficial for the environment as a whole. Although I disagree with the over-regulation of industry that it enforces, that has had a positive effect on cutting back pollution. Having said that most major cities in Europe (i.e. London, Paris) are over the EU's pollution standards per year in less than a month. London broke it in 5 days in 2017 (https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -five-days) So again, it isn't like the bigger nations aren't also slightly to blame.

Don't get me wrong, as I said before, I dislike the European Union, and am happy that the UK is leaving (I live in the UK). However, I figure that if we are going to lament the EU, we should get our figures right, because there is nothing that the establishment like more than to denounce eurosceptics as uneducated, lying brats.
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Re: The Behaviour of the Eastern European Countries in the EU

Postby jamescfm » Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:44 pm

Arapaima13 wrote:I think that the EU has been beneficial for the environment as a whole. Although I disagree with the over-regulation of industry that it enforces, that has had a positive effect on cutting back pollution. Having said that most major cities in Europe (i.e. London, Paris) are over the EU's pollution standards per year in less than a month. London broke it in 5 days in 2017 (https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -five-days) So again, it isn't like the bigger nations aren't also slightly to blame.

In my view, the environment has been one of the biggest successes of the European Union. Since most EU officials aren't directly accountable to an electorate, they don't have to worry so much about job creation, industrial growth etc. arguments which usually prevent national governments taking meaningful action on environmental issues. Interestingly, my A level Biology course dedicated a whole topic to the EU's biodiversity regulations and incentives. Felt a bit unnecessary for me to be learning it, mind.
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Re: The Behaviour of the Eastern European Countries in the EU

Postby Hrafn » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:40 pm

jamescfm wrote:
Arapaima13 wrote:I think that the EU has been beneficial for the environment as a whole. Although I disagree with the over-regulation of industry that it enforces, that has had a positive effect on cutting back pollution. Having said that most major cities in Europe (i.e. London, Paris) are over the EU's pollution standards per year in less than a month. London broke it in 5 days in 2017 (https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -five-days) So again, it isn't like the bigger nations aren't also slightly to blame.

In my view, the environment has been one of the biggest successes of the European Union. Since most EU officials aren't directly accountable to an electorate, they don't have to worry so much about job creation, industrial growth etc. arguments which usually prevent national governments taking meaningful action on environmental issues. Interestingly, my A level Biology course dedicated a whole topic to the EU's biodiversity regulations and incentives. Felt a bit unnecessary for me to be learning it, mind.

Environmental issues are my specialty, and I don't agree at all. I've seen no evidence that the EU has been good for the environment overall. The Species and Habitats Directive is good in theory, but what use is it when member states systematically violate it without repercussions? The EU has not stopped Poland from logging Bialowieza, and neither has it stopped my own country from destroying the western taiga. On the contrary, we can expect deforestation to increase because of the EU's new bioenergy campaign (I could write a tome about this, but to put it shortly the idea that making biofuel from wood is good for the climate is a complete and utter lie). And then there's the subsidies to the unsustainable fishing industry.

If we want continent-wide environmental protection, we would be better off with an agreement that is limited to just that, rather than this bloated union where the left hand rarely seems to know what the right hand is doing. Offer the poorer countries favourable investments to improve their standards - but if they don't reciprocate, kick them out!
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Re: The Behaviour of the Eastern European Countries in the EU

Postby Elf » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:03 pm

Hrafn wrote:Environmental issues are my specialty, and I don't agree at all. I've seen no evidence that the EU has been good for the environment overall. The Species and Habitats Directive is good in theory, but what use is it when member states systematically violate it without repercussions? The EU has not stopped Poland from logging Bialowieza, and neither has it stopped my own country from destroying the western taiga. On the contrary, we can expect deforestation to increase because of the EU's new bioenergy campaign (I could write a tome about this, but to put it shortly the idea that making biofuel from wood is good for the climate is a complete and utter lie). And then there's the subsidies to the unsustainable fishing industry.

If we want continent-wide environmental protection, we would be better off with an agreement that is limited to just that, rather than this bloated union where the left hand rarely seems to know what the right hand is doing. Offer the poorer countries favourable investments to improve their standards - but if they don't reciprocate, kick them out!
Some very good points there!

Of course... I don't really care if Eastern Europe is ignoring the EU since I want to dismantle the whole thing. ;)
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Re: The Behaviour of the Eastern European Countries in the EU

Postby Corvo Attano » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:46 pm

I am greek guess what is gonna be said after this post.
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Re: The Behaviour of the Eastern European Countries in the EU

Postby Elf » Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:56 pm

Corvo Attano wrote:I am greek guess what is gonna be said after this post.

You also wanna dismantle the Empire? :mrgreen:

Honestly - whenever people find comparisons with certain historical figures distasteful because what those did to mankind - whenever someone or some people has a vision of uniting Europe, history has shown us how that seems to be a very bad idea that requires trampling on other people's rights to "work". :roll: The EU was born in a context and is based on principles I think no one outside of central-western Europe really understand (post-WWII Christian Democracy) and could perhaps work well as simply a union between Germany, France and the Benelux or something. Once the British are finally free, we Nordics are gonna lose our big pro-free trade partner in the Union which will likely result in an even more protectionist and micro-managing union (and hopefully speed up its downfall).

I love being in Southern Europe because my own people are generally very conformist and afraid of conflict - southerners are fun to be with because they just feel more 'alive' in general (plus who doesn't like olive-skinned brunettes? :D ) but culturally speaking we Nordics are probably closer to the Anglosphere or even Russia. It's not just culture - it's also how the economy and society works (like if the EU were to introduce a minimum wage, that'd be a huge blow to how employer-employee relationships work here in Scandinavia). If we formed a Nordic Union instead of the EU and the Eastern EU formed something like the Intermarium we'd probably be best friends due obvious geo-political reasons.. but they'll probably be no subsidies then of course...
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Re: The Behaviour of the Eastern European Countries in the EU

Postby Corvo Attano » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:48 am

I was expecting a pay debt joke actually.
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