Russian Revolution

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Re: Russian Revolution

Postby MichaelReilly » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:47 pm

soysauce wrote:Stalin purged groups that he believed, or perhaps more accurately claimed were undermining his rule. The Purges of supposed counter-revolutionaries or so-called enemies of socialism were so extensive that no-one could reasonably argue that everyone caught up in the process was undermining Stalin's rule.

It becomes genocide when Stalin's purges target ethnic and religious groups, resulting in their mass arrest, deportation, killing or starvation. There's irrefutable evidence that this did occur in the Soviet Union.

And, even if it wasn't technically genocide, What's your point? Killing millions of people on charges of undermining the rule of a ruthless dictator is equally as reprehensable as genocide.


That's pretty much the argument the Turks take in regards to the Armenians.

Yes, they killed hundreds of thousands of Armenians, but it wasn't genocide, because something, something, something...

They seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that even if it wasn't technically genocide by the dictionary definition, they still systematically murdered over a million people. The morons just don't get it.

Also, soy, arguing with the Communists is often a lost cause. I honestly know a couple who are convinced that the purges, gulags, mass executions, pogroms, population shifts, enforced famines etc. of the glorious USSR are all one big western conspiracy. As far as I'm concerned, such an attitude is on par with holocaust denial. The deliberate choosing to ignore the murder of millions of people due to one's own political beliefs; hard not to describe that as being at best morally bankrupt and at worse completely sociopathic.
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Re: Russian Revolution

Postby IMNOTACOMMY » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:33 pm

Liu Che/Zhuli wrote:
Axxell wrote:I don't think we can give all the faults to the bad communist! It was not the communist, but the men which exploited it to gain an absolute power.
The february and the october revolutions are obviously also fault of whom governed, of the society and economic system imposed, of the conseguences of international events,etc... Etc.. Etc...
It was a founding event of the XX cemtury which contributed to enrich the collective global culture, hoping to learn about also the most dark events derived.


Oh sure. But then can you not say that "we can't give all the faults to the bad fascist/nazi! It was not the fascist/nazi, but the men who exploited it to gain absolute power"? All ideologies have bad things about them and are supported by bad eggs, but the communists killed millions more than anyone else in a single century. That is truly evil.

No, Because that is not in the context at ALL. Nazism is impossible to defend, And hitler didnt exploit a government to gain power. he took power after scaring everyone.
And lenin did pretty well, Its Stalin thats bad.
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Re: Russian Revolution

Postby IMNOTACOMMY » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:36 pm

[quote="Hrafn"]Nazism is also nice in theory. Like a mix of Sound of Music and Starship Troopers. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS? NAZI'S HATE JEWS! ITS A HORRIBLE, HATEFUL SYSTEM!
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Re: Russian Revolution

Postby Hrafn » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:23 am

IMNOTACOMMY wrote:
Hrafn wrote:Nazism is also nice in theory. Like a mix of Sound of Music and Starship Troopers.

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE CONCENTRATION CAMPS? NAZI'S HATE JEWS! ITS A HORRIBLE, HATEFUL SYSTEM!

No, it's a beautiful system. They built Autobahns and were nice to cute animals.

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Re: Russian Revolution

Postby Elf » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:14 am

Image

<3

And in the context of the thread, Hitler was an idiot. There were so many people across Europe and inside the Soviet Union who were willing to fight to free the Ukrainians and the Baltic states, even all of Russia, from the communist yoke. But the nazis were all about colonising stuff for Greater Germany. If only Hitler hadn't been a Nazi... :roll:

One can't really underestimate the consequences of the revolution and its view on human dignity... the fate of the Prussians was by no means unique. Stalin also deported all of the Chechens to Kazakhstan and built a statue with a old Russian general in their capital, with a sign reading “There is no people under the sun more vile and deceitful than this one.”..
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Re: Russian Revolution

Postby IMNOTACOMMY » Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:15 pm

[quote][/quote] Well.... I Mean...
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Re: Russian Revolution

Postby SlavaD » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:03 am

Since when was Germany not about "colonizing stuff for Greater Germany"?
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Re: Russian Revolution

Postby Elf » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:04 am

Well, Imperial Germany wanted to make (Congress) Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states their own countries. Back during those days, most of the Masurians (Slavic minority) in Eastern Prussia voted to stay in Germany after WW1. So they weren't simply ethnic nationalists.

Although, to be fair - every country during those days where chauvinists and colonialists to an extent. Sweden invented "skull measuring" around that time. Had an eugenics programme going on, with forced sterilisations, all the way to 1975.
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Re: Russian Revolution

Postby Hrafn » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:06 pm

Yes. Let's not forget Saint Churchill, who was a white supremacist who deliberately let millions of hindus starve to death, and who considered the irish to be subhuman scum as well (even though they are white...). After WW2, he loudly protested against letting non-whites from the colonies immigrate. When Nick Griffin said that Churchill would have voted for the BNP, his liberal/cuckservative admirers (who think of him as a tolerant anti-racist crusader) went apeshit, but it's probably true. If anything, Churchill might not consider the BNP racist enough.

It's kinda funny that people try to link the Alt-Right to Nazism, when the race realism of the alt-right is actually derived from the scientific racism that was strong in Britain and America and which Winston Churchill as far as we know never denounced. Hardly anyone takes the National Socialist's occult Aryan theories seriously. They were outdated even back in 1933, as racial biologists in countries other than Germany pointed out.

The Nazi's hatred of slavs is also pretty weird even in the context of their own ideology. Slavs actually have higher rates of blue eyes and blonde hair than germans have, so WW2 was basically swarthy germans butchering aryan slavs in the name of aryan supremacy. Pretty amusing in a morbid way. Nordic and finnish SS-volunteers were often disappointed about taking orders from swarthy, chubby german commanders who were a head shorter than them, and referred to them as "Nachgedunkelte Schrumpfgermanen" :mrgreen:

Elf wrote:Well, Imperial Germany wanted to make (Congress) Poland, Ukraine and the Baltic states their own countries. Back during those days, most of the Masurians (Slavic minority) in Eastern Prussia voted to stay in Germany after WW1. So they weren't simply ethnic nationalists.

Although, to be fair - every country during those days where chauvinists and colonialists to an extent. Sweden invented "skull measuring" around that time. Had an eugenics programme going on, with forced sterilisations, all the way to 1975.

Actually, craniometry was invented almost a full century before WW2.
But as for the sterilisations that went on to 1975, they were done mostly on mentally ill people, what today would be called "white trash" and also on women who were considered too promiscuous. You had to get sterilized to have an abortion in most cases, for example. Ethnically-based eugenics went out of fashion in Sweden before it could even be implemented.
Funnily enough, the Swedish sterilisation program was widely supported by feminists and by RFSU, just as the American program was supported by Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood (yes, America had one too, and it even went on longer than the Swedish one). Today feminists push degeneracy such as "fat acceptance" instead :lol:
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Re: Russian Revolution

Postby jamescfm » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:05 pm

Hrafn wrote:Yes. Let's not forget Saint Churchill, who was a white supremacist who deliberately let millions of hindus starve to death, and who considered the irish to be subhuman scum as well (even though they are white...). After WW2, he loudly protested against letting non-whites from the colonies immigrate. When Nick Griffin said that Churchill would have voted for the BNP, his liberal/cuckservative admirers (who think of him as a tolerant anti-racist crusader) went apeshit, but it's probably true. If anything, Churchill might not consider the BNP racist enough.

Not many people in Britain like to criticise Churchill, which I think is wrong, and you're right to some extent that we seem to have canonised him (I'm reminded every time I have to use a five pound note). With that said, it's totally dishonest to equate his views with the Nazi regime and it seems to be reminiscent of the "and you are hanging blacks" argument.
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