Aquinas wrote:Everybody is forgiving of a situation where the Moderators overlook a request and then respond to it after being given a reminder, as occurred with regards to Barmenia's Cultural Protocol. Nobody here is making a big deal about that.
What some of us are more troubled by is a situation like that regarding the Badaran Cultural Protocol violation report, where it took 4 attempts over a 6 day period for one of the 3 Moderators to finally acknowledge the report.
More unusually, during this 6 day period, Moderators were seen responding to other requests, writing RP posts, playing in-game and chatting extensively on Discord. A reasonable person would presume they had more than sufficient time, opportunity and reminders to process such a routine and simple request if they had chosen to do so. As the reporter in question, the impression I received, and which several others received also, was that my report was being purposely ignored due to a poor attitude towards me personally.
It lacks credibility for CM to seek to deflect this incident (which took 4 report attempts over 6 days) by lumping it in the same basket as the Barmenia incident (which only took a single reminder).
Aquinas wrote:There has so far been no sign of "overzealous, uninformed anti-mod vitriolic nonsense" on the part of any of the individuals present in this discussion. Nor has there been so in any of the other recent public discussions.
I served as a Moderator for quite some time, and during much of that period, I was either on my own or almost on my own due to the inactivity of the other Moderator. During the latter part of my period, as many will be aware, there were a few quite nasty incidents of an "anti-Moderation" character, although I must add these involved a tiny, tiny, tiny minority of people. From that personal experience, I know probably better than anyone what "overzealous, uninformed, anti-mod vitriolic nonsense" actually looks like, and as a close observer of this game, I can confidently confirm that this phenomenon has really not been on public display to any significant extent in recent times in this community. Lewis's comments here and in his resignation post reflect a lot of personal frustration on his part, which I do understand, but his statements are backed up with little in the way of substantive evidence, and the picture he paints of this online community and its management team is in my view not an accurate one. The most there has been has been some incidents involving a very few people, and from what I have seen, frankly even most of those cases were in significant part the result of a deficiency in professionalism and even basic courtesy on the part of various game officials.
There has unfortunately been, as James has pointed out, a tendency on the part of Moderators to treat perfectly normal constructive feedback as a personal attack, and to repeatedly attempt to deflect genuine and legitimate complaints by misrepresenting and making irrelevant and inaccurate accusations against the persons delivering them. The effect of this has been to create an unhealthy atmosphere where a lot of people prefer either not to publicly express themselves or to ask bolder people to express their points for them.
The combination of (a) over-sensitivity and over-reactiveness towards perceived criticism with (b) complacency and inefficiency with regards even to routine and basic functions creates a difficult situation. If It was only one of those we were dealing with, it would not be quite so bad, but unfortunately, what we are dealing with here is both. In fairness to the Moderators, I will add, as a few others have elsewhere, that two of the current Moderators are fairly new, and also that these problems have been going on for some while - I would say before any of the current Moderators came to office, in fact. However, we are now at a stage where the general deterioration is becoming more serious and more obviously noticeable, and honestly, I think it would take a significant amount of determination and attitude-shifting on the part of the current Moderation Team in order to get us to a better place. If we could get to a stage where Moderation finally stops casually using deflection tactics and starts just responding calmly and reasonably to the issues, then that would be a good start, but based on the attitude conveyed in CM's posts here, I can't honestly say I'm massively confident right now that there is any progress to be made.
Reddy wrote:Actually with the Barmenian incident, it took more than one reminder (most of them were off-site on Discord) It also took about 4 days before the CP Removal request was processed. With the CP Approval, I actually deleted my first request after it has gone more than 24 hours without any response and posted a new one.
When the Mod uses the "view New Posts" function and see it and possibly leaves it, forgets about it or perhaps expects one of his co-Mods to address it, it's not impossible at all to do that. That is why I chose to accept Luis' explanation without any doubts. It's not about time, it's about disorder. What I think is that we need to fix that rather than speculating about conspiracy etc in it and what it might possibly imply. Is there any evidence that this is more than disorder and say, conspiracy/malice?
Reddy wrote:Let's not conflate all of this with what MrGod did in Cildania which was clearly wrong with general disorder. I believe that he understands that he made a mistake, has shown remorse for it and should be given another chance to prove himself. In any case, without accusing any specific person/s, this slide into personal attacks or negativity will not help much and only serve to discourage other from participating in this thread.
lewiselder1 wrote:To clarify, I’m not saying anyone here was trying to do that, but that I think this is what cm was trying to pre-emptively stop this from developing into that.
lewiselder1 wrote:I understand that you have very different views on this based on your own experiences but all I can really do is say that your experiences are outdated.
lewiselder1 wrote:I can’t provide much empirical evidence, partially because some of it is private, partially because, even though some of it is public it would be questionable for me to start naming and shaming people all over the place.
lewiselder1 wrote:Ultimately, this was virtually the only thing I experienced in my tenure as mod, it’s the contents of my resignation statement, and as far as I can tell those in the same position around the same time and currently share my views. It would seem odd for this to be a purely personal viewpoint.
lewiselder1 wrote:If we look at the numbers of players total playing the game, it is a tiny tiny minority: if we look at the number of active players on say the discord and forums — the ‘main players’, if you want to call them that, though it’s a bit exclusionary — the numbers of active participants in this kind of behaviour is a bigger minority, and the number of players outside of the GRC / Moderation (who have to deal with these attitudes) who unwittingly contribute to this atmosphere is much, much higher.
lewiselder1 wrote:By and large, though not always, moderation is not and has not, in my view, been over-sensitive
lewiselder1 wrote:the difference is that they shouldn’t put up with people being dicks, basically.
lewiselder1 wrote:People who put across the views peacefully and calmly, as James has, a sense others have, typically are listened to and their views considered: sure, they don’t always get to ‘win’ if there’s genuine counterarguments, but that’s good. At least, that’s been my experience. Regarding complacency, again, the thing coming out of most recent moderator’s mouths is that they’re overworked or something similar to this. Luis touched on it, I’ve said it, cm said it...
lewiselder1 wrote:I think that the role needs to be refined significantly. Certainly, things could be improved, and I hope the mods madke a concerted effort to look into how to avoid these issues in future
lewiselder1 wrote: but to present it as just complacency I think is just wrong.
lewiselder1 wrote:Ultimately, I’m not eager to continue this debate about the nature of the game, if only because we’ve debated this before and it’s not all that relevant.
2. Large scale RP planning (such as wars, regional/continental conflicts, economic collapse, etc.) should be planned (as best as it can be) and should have consent of a majority of players involved. It is possible to RP smaller events without the consent of all players or others;
2. Large scale RP planning (such as wars, regional/continental conflicts, economic collapse, etc.) should be planned (as best as it can be) and should have consent of a majority of players involved. It is possible to RP smaller events without the consent of all players or others;
-- 2a. Players are required to pass a bill authorizing the RP which must be passed by a majority of players with seats within the nation (for major, large-scale roleplays such as civil wars, wars, significant economic or RP-related political reforms, etc.) Players are required to create an OOC RP planning bill or forum post discussing the general outline and discussion for planned RP; it needs to include a link to the passed RP authorization bill (for all players);
-- 2b. Players who engage with RP via newspaper posts, in-game messages or other forms of in-character communications are generally accepted to be consenting to the RP. In the event that consent or authorization comes into question, players who have engaged will be counted as voting for or authorizing the RP.
5. Players are permitted to change the name of their nation, newspaper, cities and regions and post such a request HERE, to do this they must pass a bill with 2/3 majority of active players with seats. All re-naming requests must be within the Cultural Protocols of the nation in question. As a note, players must include the original name of their nation in parenthesis when giving the formal name of their nation. For instance "Zardic Empire (Zardugal)" would be appropriate whereas "Zardic Empire" will not be approved
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